Review And Balance of Exp

[Invictus]

Hellow, Rélou, I've been talking with some friends this week and we had some Ideas/Suggestions for our community.​

In recent months is notable the reduction of the number of players leveling beyond lv 130 and several reasons make this very evident, between them:


- The first is undoubtedly the sameness, that is, a sequence of respawn that is recommended to evolve quickly and satisfactorily. Of course no one wants to be in disadvantage in terms of time spent X effort X benefit (Gengar Mansion, TM 23, Yellow Hall, Elemental Zone, Ice 120+, Etc). This is the basic sequence used up to level 150, since Poi's Respawn offers no cost benefit.


- Possible Quest Rewards above level 130 are not so good because the player depends on the famous "luck” (Porygon-Z, PApoi, Pokemon Palace, PA Inquisition and Panihilator 2), if we take a look at the rewards they all are Boxes or Random TMs besides PAnihilator 2 and Porygon-Z, which means that they are based on luck. So the question remains, why keep going up from level 130 when I can simply create another character knowing that I'm going to make a lot more profit with a lot less effort.


- The support given to the lower-mid levels in the past months has been awesome while for the higher levels the variety of hunts haven’t changed at all. The player between the 130 -150 level basically has to remain in respawn for players lv 100 access, that is, have to contend against someone who is determined to reach lv 130. Speaking now of level 180+, after spending 30 lvl In Pokemon Palace, things begin to get a little boring and since the respaws of inquisition (160+) are sooo bad people just stop leveling because there is no more incentive.


Some places could help solve this problem. At the moment we have the POI with an exp of 20% of the total but in most places its not worth to hunt since it is a place with very high cost x benefit, the experience/hour is low and the risk of dying is high what make us lose 1 hour of hunting (If you are High Lvl).

PS: These same evidences apply to INQ

And what is the problem?

Overcrowding and Saturation​

As there are no advantages for high level players in going hunting in respawns for higher levels they will go to the simpler respawns and with greater benefit per hour causing the overcrowding of this place, queue of ppl and ks besides that after a while It becomes extremely tiring to do the same hunts.
If we look at the lvl rank (nowadays) and compare it with 1-2 years ago, we can see that the same players still there, this is because players are not very motivated to keep lvling, maybe mostly of the time because of the reasons cited above.

Well, our point with it all is to make them remove this reduction or at least review because in most of these places:


PAPOI/INQ

As you can see, It's an average of 40-60k per hour (getting 20% of the real exp) which would be something around 200-300k (If it was the normal exp) what is not abusive for the kind of respaw or which will make a player top lvl overnight , and we also compared “Famous" respawns used by the community:

The average is at the base of 125k+ but in some of them I could easily do 220k in a respaw for lvl 100 and considering the fact that POI and IQN are high-risk areas and cost higher than other respawns, a buff in the exp of these places is more than necessary. I can give an example of my char (Lvl 218 Atm doing 55k per hour in some random room of the POI/INQ which is very low considering the difficulty of these zones and if any mistake or something happen, I'm going to lose around 50k with the death penalty, maybe it's not much, but for a respawn that demands your total attention and you are able to do max 55k per hour, if any such error happens it is 1 hour of exp thrown away.)

About INQ, probably you didn't even test before removing the exp (thinking it would be an OP Place) and then making us get 20% of the real exp, being such a hard place to go alone and where people usually put ther feet only to help someone to open the quest...

Of course with the exception of Poi Psy, the other respawns could yes give again their real exp because nothing will be abusive and our players will be better distributed in the hunts, in some of them I could do max 35k per hour which would be something around 175k (worse than some low lvl zones, which is ridiculous) and in others the maximum would be 250-300k.
Due the difficulty and high spending of supplies, is a fair exp, and in the case of Poi Psy, there could be increased from 20% to 50-60% (just an example) which amounts to a total of 312-375k per hour in the last room and on the stairs that is where people go more easily would be something around 200-240k per hour, nothing so abusive, again ...

Think about it Staff, we hope you take all these factors into consideration and the most important, the lack of places for exp for high lvls, the difficulty of these respawns, the high cost we have on them, etc.

Notes from the editor:

We know that actually the POI is extremely useful for rush lvl of pokemons, and a lot of ppl are going to there but we do not see why it's not even a good place for the lvl up of char, ofc giving a fair experience.

To prevent certain comments, I stayed around 20-25 minutes in each respawns before taking each print of the exp per hour to reach or at least try at the maximum exp of each place but if you want to test it by yourself feel free to do it.


Yours Sincerely,
Silver Fang, Paulo Sedric, Albu, Flap Jack, Ritcher and Me.​

 

[Raissa]

I would like to make 1 basic question:
Firstly you're talking of "bad" rewards from quest which don't give motivation to level up, so how extending experience on PA Poi / Inq will give players motivation to exp, if there's no adventage of it (no good rewards from higher quests as you said).
In this moment your argument makes no sense.

Quests are quests and I'd rather to leave them alone and simply create new respawns, but it won't happen before I finish alola islands.

 

[Celsonz]

I suggest also too renew map of palace bcs this map doesnt look good. Its looks like 1-2h of fast work

 

[Albuquerque]

I fully agree with the start post. I'd like to suggest adding more% exp to INQUI/Poi. So we could have balance in respawns to lower level. Or you could create new respawns to favor the high level given that support for low and medium levels has been incredible in recent months.
Or you could create new respawns in fact and get us out of sameness.

I think you (all people) think about it all is not difficult, just stop being so hardheaded.

I would like to make 1 basic question:
Firstly you're talking of "bad" rewards from quest which don't give motivation to level up, so how extending experience on PA Poi / Inq will give players motivation to exp, if there's no adventage of it (no good rewards from higher quests as you said).
In this moment your argument makes no sense.

Quests are quests and I'd rather to leave them alone and simply create new respawns, but it won't happen before I finish alola islands.

I think "bad" means you're lucky to deserve a good reward.
But I think it's completely NO SENSE you compete with a level 300 that passes practically all day in a 120 respawn, also in others respawns always the difference of level like a level 100 or less competing with a level 150, 200, and 300? Does that make sense then? I don't think so.

I didn't even know that inside the yellow hall you could do so much exp/h. Now I'm imagining several levels 60~80 competing with a high level.

I suggest also too renew map of palace bcs this map doesnt look good. Its looks like 1-2h of fast work

I also think about this, and yes it is necessary to re-create or create new maps for various places. And there are islands just like the others on the continents as you can see in the image below. I'm starting to think they use the orange archipelago continent for tests new places because when I explored I found several "ghost" islands with no Pokémon existence.

Regards,
Albu.​

 

[Invictus]

I would like to make 1 basic question:
Firstly you're talking of "bad" rewards from quest which don't give motivation to level up, so how extending experience on PA Poi / Inq will give players motivation to exp, if there's no adventage of it (no good rewards from higher quests as you said).
In this moment your argument makes no sense.

Quests are quests and I'd rather to leave them alone and simply create new respawns, but it won't happen before I finish alola islands.

Well, the rewards are just one of all the supposed reasons I said and since that was the only one you said have "no sense" knowing the rest is true, let me explain it better.

I didn't say that the rewards were bad (because you can get nice things) but some of them because they depend on luck for something good, sice some people can get 50-60k in one of these quest, others can get 2k, if you are a player with no luck, you will understand what I'm talking about.

Some players keep lvling because in the middle of the 140-160 there's a somehing called Palace for lvl 150, yes, a QUEST that depends on luck in the TM Case BUT there is a good place to level which can motivate someone to keep lvling besides being a good option if you're bored of the classic respawns (of course, this is if you don't leave it "alone" as you said since quest is quest and there is also a quest there, no? the same applies for QUEST of TM23, Yellow Hall QUEST , Elemental QUEST, even Ice QUEST, should I mention more?)

And then we got the panihilator 2.0, it was when I thought we would see more players motivate to lvl besides not being a quest based on luck, but no, I was wrong, except for players who were already 180+ if I have helped more than 5 players since the quest was implemented (06-05-16, almost 9 months) it was too much and yes, for sure they were near from lvl 180 already, and not say that in all them, I've been in 98% of Panihilator done on diamond helping these people, Those who already had lvl for the quest and those who were getting lvl 180.


Now let me give you an example because example is cool:

ICE 120+ and Palace Ice, yes, the exp in the palace is a bit better than the ice 120 BUT if we compare in terms of less cost and more profit the ice 120 makes 10-0 in others places that's why we see 160+ players even with access to all ice type zones in the game in this respaw and I will say some reasons: because it has more chance to drop good tms, pokemons are worth more and lol, there is a place for the player stays afk if any unforeseen happen which is somehing good, while in Palace, Inq and Poi, well, I do not need to say.

Our proposal is to just find a solution to these places, I don't know about you my friends but if I was low lvl I would not like to see player 200+ in zone for 100, this is something shameful for the lvl high and annoying for the low Lvl.

 

[flapjackhere]

I dont see a reason for this since its easy to solve. Inquisition have amazing hunts that are not usable for reasons that guys mentioned. We are not asking for mega op spawns with mega easy lvl up, just would be cool get a bit more exp on these places making it usable and relieving spawns overloaded

 

[Mundisse]

I would like to make 1 basic question:
Firstly you're talking of "bad" rewards from quest which don't give motivation to level up, so how extending experience on PA Poi / Inq will give players motivation to exp, if there's no adventage of it (no good rewards from higher quests as you said).
In this moment your argument makes no sense.

Quests are quests and I'd rather to leave them alone and simply create new respawns, but it won't happen before I finish alola islands.

1) I do not know if it is clear, but the purpose of the post is about the rebalancing of areas that almost no one uses today. The first part was cited reward as one of the probable causes, but it is clear that we have not proposed any solution for this cause, but for the POI / INQ areas.

2 ) And about creating other areas I don't agree, because you have a lot to do (2017 Plans), it would only be a waste of time, since you have good areas that only need a change in your source code. It would only take a few hours to test and arrive at a percentage that is reasonable.

 

[kirius]

I do not see any sense at this point in what they ask unless the pokemon can rise to more than level 130

 

[Grayfoox]

I'm agreed with Knightmare, the exp should be reworked in almost those high lvl places. Btw, you should consider also the exp given by the elders in panihilator quests (including vol 2) because in this quest you need help from friends or guys that already made the quest, and if you kill an elder, it gives you like 200-300 exp. Considering it's a very hard quest, should give more exp (rewards are ok).

 

[huberto]

What you are mostly suggesting is literaly what we had one year ago, before exp rate rework. We could get 180-200 k/h on 150+ rock, 220-240 on grass, 250-280 on ice, 280-300 on fire. Guess what? People werent leveling much more than today. Its not sameness what makes people dont lvl up, its lazyness. As you said there is no real benefit of being h-lvl, so how can people be motivated to level up higher than 160. Time you have to spend to advance.from 160 to 180 is probably equal to leveling new 2 or 3 characters to 130, and rewards are not comperable. Anyway people are just too lazy to move out and level up, is it a problem for you or anyone who is leveling regulary? I dont think so cause you are still going forward.

I agree with INQ being not worth to level up at all, same goes for POI fire and ice, exp could be boosted there a little bit, up to 30-40% instead of 20. I dont agree at all with boosting POI psy or ghost, you said its high risk/cost but reward is even higher. Speed of leveling pokemons there is just insane, if you want to boost exp gain for character on POI, exp gain for pokemons should be lowered to the same value.

I also agree with palace being too bad nowadays, it is a shame that 120 ice or 100+ grass ale way better than whole 150+ area but I dont think there is much to do about it, maybe nerf lower places.

The only thing that would motivate people to keep leveling is some kind of high and unique rewarded quest for at least 200+. Maybe even whole new area with new good respawns for 200+.

 

[Sheeper]

The only thing that would motivate people to keep leveling is some kind of high and unique rewarded quest for at least 200+. Maybe even whole new area with new good respawns for 200+.

I have always claimed some sort of elemental quest 2 allowing you to use mega pokemons and improving the mega system then would motivate people to exp untill 200. That would be a good motivation reward. At the moment, nobody really cares about megas.

About leveling, there might be some location for 180+ levels, where we could maintain like 200-250k/h. That would help to avoid 200 levels at 120+ ice for example - a better alternative for high level players, and this way lower levels wouldn't have so much troubles with getting on 120+ zones.

 

[Invictus]

What you are mostly suggesting is literaly what we had one year ago, before exp rate rework. We could get 180-200 k/h on 150+ rock, 220-240 on grass, 250-280 on ice, 280-300 on fire. Guess what? People werent leveling much more than today. Its not sameness what makes people dont lvl up, its lazyness. As you said there is no real benefit of being h-lvl, so how can people be motivated to level up higher than 160. Time you have to spend to advance.from 160 to 180 is probably equal to leveling new 2 or 3 characters to 130, and rewards are not comperable. Anyway people are just too lazy to move out and level up, is it a problem for you or anyone who is leveling regulary? I dont think so cause you are still going forward.

I agree with INQ being not worth to level up at all, same goes for POI fire and ice, exp could be boosted there a little bit, up to 30-40% instead of 20. I dont agree at all with boosting POI psy or ghost, you said its high risk/cost but reward is even higher. Speed of leveling pokemons there is just insane, if you want to boost exp gain for character on POI, exp gain for pokemons should be lowered to the same value.

I also agree with palace being too bad nowadays, it is a shame that 120 ice or 100+ grass ale way better than whole 150+ area but I dont think there is much to do about it, maybe nerf lower places.

The only thing that would motivate people to keep leveling is some kind of high and unique rewarded quest for at least 200+. Maybe even whole new area with new good respawns for 200+.

I agree with you on some points but, "lazyness" ... I prefer to exchange this word for smartness, people are not lazy as you said and yes smart, I am talking in general and not only the high lvl because a high level can also lvl other accounts for the 130 (what many do) and don't make them lazy knowing that they will not get new good options of hunt and will have to repeat the same places to get the lvl 150-160 also knowing that the best reward is at lvl 130 and the best places too, obviously they will create another char and lvl up to it 130 again, me, you everyone know a lot of people that opts for this way, who does not know or even does? I did it even when the reflect could be compared to some tm of the palace, but over time I got bored that's why I stay in my main char now.

Now talking about the exp in those areas for a better distribution of the players that is the point of our thread, I'll show this in a chart for everyone understand better.

In Blue is what we currently get.
In Yellow is the supposed % of experience that we could get If increased.
In Green, taking all facts in consideration and comparing the other respawns is our idea of ExP we should get.
In Black would be already a little "high" exp
and in Red the maximum of each zone.


And as you can see in some of them the exp can be compared with normal hunts and in others it is even worse, let's use suggestion from Inko where says that Poi Ice should give 30-40% which would be something around the 50-70k even knowing that the maximum of this place does not exceed 170k per hour, a normal exp, and the Poi Ghost isn't a big deal, there is something around 250k while we can make 220k in Elemental, I don't think 30k is a big difference, maybe you think that because you must have take something low lvl for exp in shared or helped someone what made the Pokémon advance fast, but what makes some of these zones a good place is that you don't have to walk and just wait for the respaw that is fast and about Poi Fire and other INQ Room idk about them, Elder are very strong to test and some rooms are a little hard to go alone.

PS: Exp for pokes can also be changed,
Regards

 

[Ritcher]

I totally agree, it is assumed that while you have a higher level, you have better opportunities to go somewhere hunt, and we have that, but also influences that we can do a greater amount of experience, in this case would be, put at least balanced experience in all the places mentioned.

And its necessary cause when we die (talking for players 151+) we lost 40-1h of experience, while a 150- just say "bah, 5 minutes and im fine" or something, it gonna be a godo idea to make this works..

 

[kirius]

I do not understand why they ask for a balance of experience, if the last quest is at level 180 and there is nothing else, I would understand if the pokemon could rise to more than level 130, but this is not the case. The people do not take the trouble to level up since the pokemon nowadays are at a very low price and already with level 120 can use the highest level pokemon. Adding new missions would not motivate people, maybe for a few weeks and then be stuck again.

The only motivation for the players to continue hunting would be that the Pokémon have no limit in level up, this way people will be forced to hunt and finally will achieve a difference between being high and low level or is very dumb what I am saying?

 

[Grayfoox]

I think all of this "stopper" to receive alot of exp in those places is about the HP in the character that you could get while you are leveling up. Have you ever ask to selasor how much HP he has? xD also, the speed in the char is another problem. Many high levels in the server could unbalance the quests and events in game.

So maybe the solution would be to put a limit to receive more HP and speed in high lvls xD. I'm assuming this is possible because the pokemons get the max speed at lvl 100 (when you use ride, fly or surf).

 

[Jertusz]

I think all of this "stopper" to receive alot of exp in those places is about the HP in the character that you could get while you are leveling up. Have you ever ask to selasor how much HP he has? xD also, the speed in the char is another problem. Many high levels in the server could unbalance the quests and events in game.

So maybe the solution would be to put a limit to receive more HP and speed in high lvls xD. I'm assuming this is possible because the pokemons get the max speed at lvl 100 (when you use ride, fly or surf).

Disagree. If they would remove hp gain and spped gain on lvl, what would be the point of exping?

 

[paulosedric]

Well some people like to be in the leaderbords or aim to be the top sometime, sadly we had poi psy broke sometime ago and a few people abused of it making nearly impossible to reach them nowadays. Aldo doesnt make any sense that the respaws meant to be hunted by high experience trainers give less xp than the resps to new lower experience ones. If we take it more to RPG lets imagine a level 180 character against a level 130, Theoretically(I enphasize this) the level 180 has more skill to level and so it would be able to hunt in better places.

The advantage on this? Well the player 180 would be able to hunt on harder places what could make him level pokes slightly faster than in other places what could be a "bonus" to the player for reaching such level.

Kirius said an important point but i guess it will change if pokemons get the possibility of leveling to 150.

Right now players of level 120~130 have the same capacity on duels and hunt if we compare with a player lvl 200+, i guess those changes in respaws could improve this stage that the game is right now which along with level 150 pokemons and those new quests that are comming sOOn would make leveling beyond 130 more attractive to players.

Thats all
thx
bye
kiss
me liga

 

[psych07]

Hellow, Rélou, I've been talking with some friends this week and we had some Ideas/Suggestions for our community.​

In recent months is notable the reduction of the number of players leveling beyond lv 130 and several reasons make this very evident, between them:


- The first is undoubtedly the sameness, that is, a sequence of respawn that is recommended to evolve quickly and satisfactorily. Of course no one wants to be in disadvantage in terms of time spent X effort X benefit (Gengar Mansion, TM 23, Yellow Hall, Elemental Zone, Ice 120+, Etc). This is the basic sequence used up to level 150, since Poi's Respawn offers no cost benefit.


- Possible Quest Rewards above level 130 are not so good because the player depends on the famous "luck” (Porygon-Z, PApoi, Pokemon Palace, PA Inquisition and Panihilator 2), if we take a look at the rewards they all are Boxes or Random TMs besides PAnihilator 2 and Porygon-Z, which means that they are based on luck. So the question remains, why keep going up from level 130 when I can simply create another character knowing that I'm going to make a lot more profit with a lot less effort.


- The support given to the lower-mid levels in the past months has been awesome while for the higher levels the variety of hunts haven’t changed at all. The player between the 130 -150 level basically has to remain in respawn for players lv 100 access, that is, have to contend against someone who is determined to reach lv 130. Speaking now of level 180+, after spending 30 lvl In Pokemon Palace, things begin to get a little boring and since the respaws of inquisition (160+) are sooo bad people just stop leveling because there is no more incentive.


Some places could help solve this problem. At the moment we have the POI with an exp of 20% of the total but in most places its not worth to hunt since it is a place with very high cost x benefit, the experience/hour is low and the risk of dying is high what make us lose 1 hour of hunting (If you are High Lvl).

PS: These same evidences apply to INQ

And what is the problem?

Overcrowding and Saturation​

As there are no advantages for high level players in going hunting in respawns for higher levels they will go to the simpler respawns and with greater benefit per hour causing the overcrowding of this place, queue of ppl and ks besides that after a while It becomes extremely tiring to do the same hunts.
If we look at the lvl rank (nowadays) and compare it with 1-2 years ago, we can see that the same players still there, this is because players are not very motivated to keep lvling, maybe mostly of the time because of the reasons cited above.

Well, our point with it all is to make them remove this reduction or at least review because in most of these places:


PAPOI/INQ

As you can see, It's an average of 40-60k per hour (getting 20% of the real exp) which would be something around 200-300k (If it was the normal exp) what is not abusive for the kind of respaw or which will make a player top lvl overnight , and we also compared “Famous" respawns used by the community:

The average is at the base of 125k+ but in some of them I could easily do 220k in a respaw for lvl 100 and considering the fact that POI and IQN are high-risk areas and cost higher than other respawns, a buff in the exp of these places is more than necessary. I can give an example of my char (Lvl 218 Atm doing 55k per hour in some random room of the POI/INQ which is very low considering the difficulty of these zones and if any mistake or something happen, I'm going to lose around 50k with the death penalty, maybe it's not much, but for a respawn that demands your total attention and you are able to do max 55k per hour, if any such error happens it is 1 hour of exp thrown away.)

About INQ, probably you didn't even test before removing the exp (thinking it would be an OP Place) and then making us get 20% of the real exp, being such a hard place to go alone and where people usually put ther feet only to help someone to open the quest...

Of course with the exception of Poi Psy, the other respawns could yes give again their real exp because nothing will be abusive and our players will be better distributed in the hunts, in some of them I could do max 35k per hour which would be something around 175k (worse than some low lvl zones, which is ridiculous) and in others the maximum would be 250-300k.
Due the difficulty and high spending of supplies, is a fair exp, and in the case of Poi Psy, there could be increased from 20% to 50-60% (just an example) which amounts to a total of 312-375k per hour in the last room and on the stairs that is where people go more easily would be something around 200-240k per hour, nothing so abusive, again ...

Think about it Staff, we hope you take all these factors into consideration and the most important, the lack of places for exp for high lvls, the difficulty of these respawns, the high cost we have on them, etc.

Notes from the editor:

We know that actually the POI is extremely useful for rush lvl of pokemons, and a lot of ppl are going to there but we do not see why it's not even a good place for the lvl up of char, ofc giving a fair experience.

To prevent certain comments, I stayed around 20-25 minutes in each respawns before taking each print of the exp per hour to reach or at least try at the maximum exp of each place but if you want to test it by yourself feel free to do it.


Yours Sincerely,
Silver Fang, Paulo Sedric, Albu, Flap Jack, Ritcher and Me.​

Agree.

 

[Sucrilhosforever]

bump on this, because a thought that i've had when i was hunting lapras on ice island. that place is HUGE, almost a continent itself(same goes to blastoise island on kanto), and those places in their surface are empty as hell. same goes for other islands.

Our map is giant (even without hoenn, not sure why hoenn does not exist but rs rs), some spawns could be created to high levels(if you don't take into consideration boosting those places invictus pointed out) so low level xp places wouldn't be crowded, and a level 120 would not compete with a lvl 300 for a spawn.

The number of higher levels are increasing, and the max level place we have is 205(since a year ago), so i think a few new spawns on dead places (someone said orange island ghostzones up on this thread) wouldn't take too much time i guess(i don't map, so i can't speak 100% sure), and would keep players busy with something till alola(no hoenn, rite) comes up.

ps: hoenn sdds

 

[Sting]

Quests are quests and I'd rather to leave them alone and simply create new respawns, but it won't happen before I finish alola islands.

The number of higher levels are increasing, and the max level place we have is 205(since a year ago), so i think a few new spawns on dead places (someone said orange island ghostzones up on this thread) wouldn't take too much time i guess(i don't map, so i can't speak 100% sure), and would keep players busy with something till alola(no hoenn, rite) comes up.

ps: hoenn sdds

As you can see it is already planned by Raissa so you have to wait. Also not every high lvl exp in every h lvl place at the same time so its not that hard to get free respawn (for example i never saw ppl on 200+ water)