Dragonite

[King]

My motivation to write this thread is basicaly before christmas i see a lot of Dragonite being sold by like 3.5k. This draw my attencion, check my Pokedex and if i'm not wrong his kit not change since Johto, when i stop to play 5 years ago(? more or less).

P - Wing Attack
P - Extreme Speed
m1- Aqua Tail -ST low damage
m2- Fly - ST melee good damage
m3- Thunderwave - Easy2miss Cone Good Damage
m4- Changing Scales - AoE Dragon
m5- Hyper Beam - Beam(3x6) Good Damage
m6- Dragon Rage - ST
m7- Roost - 25%HP 50s (worse heal)
m8- Sky Drop - Best flying in set
m9- Twister - AoE Dragon
m10- Outrage - AoE Dragon
-/-/-ST - Single Target -/- AoE - Area of Effect

Summary
2 Moves that not fit it, Aqua Tail and Thunderwave, 2 lost children.
3 AoE dragon moves, lets change one for a Flying AoE move, like Hurricane, thats on his move learn set since Generation 5.
Roost is a bad move in the way it is now, 25% heal is right, but CD of that move not.

My suggestion
Aqua Tail -> Dragon Tail (a irrelevant change)
Thunderwave -> Safeguard/Headbutt (i'm not sure how safeguard work, i think it prevent 'stuns') or rework Thunderwave to work like 'Imprison' with no/low damage infringing Paralyze.
Clanging Scales -> Hurricane
Roost - 50s -> 30s

 

[Sting]

Aqua tail is a counter to his rock weakness it's obvious that it have low dmg due to it being a weak target move (other pokemons have stuff like ember,tackle etc) so even if it "don't fit" just accept it every pokemon have one or another counter. Anyway even if we would change it to dragon tail it would still deal very low dmg.

Thunderwave is a simple nice paral move that helps him vs other dragons due to them being mostly part flying also ice types tend to have water quite often too. Chaning it to safeguard is just weakening him it would faster fit a passive than to take slot for another move.

Heabutt is a stun so such option will no be considered (also change to thunderwave can be forgotten it would require too much balancing if it would suddently become a stun).

Clanging for hurricane seems out of place i would rather change twister for hurricane then sky drop to weaker dragon aoe (tho it have not worked well when he had that move once)

Also any prot,heal skill have mostly 50s cd so i don't think that making it load faster would be good (with 30s it could be easilly used 2 times considering that reflect exist so he would get random 50% heal out of nowhere)

So in my opinion changes are not needed (and forcing them would be bad) he's a dragon that i can always depend on, no matter what dragon is being send against him

ps: people would complain too much if we would remove aoe stun to a single target close range one

 

[Grayfoox]

I just think it needs an update on moves like you did with Salamence... But Dragonite is for duels more than exp side, however it's a very common poke now. It's a shame u_u

 

[stin stauer]

I just think it needs an update on moves like you did with Salamence... But Dragonite is for duels more than exp side, however it's a very common poke now. It's a shame u_u

Salamence sux btw

 

[NandoCruise]

Dragonite has had so many changes but somehow it's never well balanced... it's like they don't want Dragonite to be too OP.

I would go a little bit crazy on this suggestion, but I feel like Dragonite is worthy...

Actual moveset
P - Wing Attack
P - Extreme Speed
m1- Aqua Tail 10 sec
m2- Fly 30 sec
m3- Thunderwave 30 sec
m4- Changing Scales 30 sec
m5- Hyper Beam 20 sec
m6- Dragon Rage 15 sec
m7- Roost 50 sec
m8- Sky Drop 15 sec
m9- Twister 45 sec
m10- Outrage 50 sec


My suggestion:

P - Extreme Speed
m1- Iron Tail 10 sec. // Really good low-damage counter
m2- Sky drop 15 sec. // Dragonite can learn Reflect, which is also like a small "protect" to moves. To avoid Dragonite being too op, then remove Fly(which can help you to avoid getting damage from some moves) in order to have a low-cooldown move.
m3- Thunderwave 30 sec
m4- Changing Scales 30 sec
m5- Hyper Beam 20 sec
m6- Dragon Rage 15 sec
m7- Roost 50 sec
m8- Air Pressure 45 sec (6k Damage)
(Dragonite definitely needs a good Flying AoE. Even though according to bulbapedia Dragonite can learn Twister AND Hurricane... I suggested move Air Pressure, because Twister has the same formula as Hurricane)
m9- Twister 35 sec (4.5k damage)
m10- Outrage 50 sec (6k Damage)

I am actually following a little bit the logic of other dragon types, like Goodra for instance (Rain Dance, Dragon Cry and Twister, 3 good AoE), Flygon (Tectonic Dance, Fissure, Draco Meteor), Garchomp (Epicenter, Dragon Cry, Rock Tomb), Kingdra (Water Tornado, Dragon Cry, Clear Smog), etc...

I mentioned them because they have 3 good AoE and they are not too op. Dragonite right now only has 2 good AoE and I believe that should change.

What do you guys think of my suggestion?

 

[Juangutierrez]

My suggestion
P1 Wing Attack
P2 Extreme Speed
M1 Iron tail
M2 Fly
M3 Thunder punch
M4 Clanging Scales
M5 Hyper beam
M6 Dragon rage
M7 Roost
M8 Aerial Ace
M9 Air pressure
M10 Outrage

Why Iron tail instead aqua tail? the only counter for fairy
Fly?? is really nice for duel
Why Thunder punch instead thunder wave? can't fail it and less cd
Why aerial ace instead sky drop? nobody uses a tm stun to dragonite i think this is the main problem at the same time is essential to have reflect + brick / Rain / dragon storm for pvp/pve.
Why air preassure instead twister? a fly type aoe is necessary

 

[Tsotss]

Why aerial ace instead sky drop? nobody uses a tm stun to dragonite i think this is the main problem at the same time is essential to have reflect + brick / Rain / dragon storm for pvp/pve

There is a rule saying that pokemon can have max 2 stuns including moveset and TMset. With your suggestion Dragonite would have possibility 3 stun moves. Also is wrong saying that no one use TM stun. Sometimes I saw on market/advertising channel Dragonite with stun as a TM and other one.

Really like Nando's suggestion. Also want to suggest something other what could encourage some poeple to use Dragonite more often.

Add Safeguard as a passive (and maybe Wing Attack) and remove Extreme Speed from passives, and add Extreme Speed instead of Hyper Beam. Other spells from Nando's suggestion gonna stay as he suggested.

 

[Sting]

So far only nando proposition sounds normal tho i still like fly more but in terms of cd lenght it might be too much

@Juangutierrez
i don't see any reason why anyone would want thunder punch instead of wave which got slightly changed once and its range is huge and it's free paral from distance, Do not expect second stun in dragonite just because nobody uses them in tms, he's got restrictions and he will still have them without additional stun.

About passives i don't know if giving him prot from stuns is a good idea

 

[Juangutierrez]

There is a rule saying that pokemon can have max 2 stuns including moveset and TMset. With your suggestion Dragonite would have possibility 3 stun moves. Also is wrong saying that no one use TM stun. Sometimes I saw on market/advertising channel Dragonite with stun as a TM and other one.

Have you seen any dragonite with another stun tm other than water pulse? because i dont. I don't see the problem in removing water pulse / sleep talk / wild charger / dizzy punch, it's been done before, nor do I think they have been very useful or viable for a dragonite.

 

[Juangutierrez]

So far only nando proposition sounds normal tho i still like fly more but in terms of cd lenght it might be too much

@Juangutierrez
i don't see any reason why anyone would want thunder punch instead of wave which got slightly changed once and its range is huge and it's free paral from distance, Do not expect second stun in dragonite just because nobody uses them in tms, he's got restrictions and he will still have them without additional stun.

About passives i don't know if giving him prot from stuns is a good idea

i like thunderwave is fucking nice move but it is for pokemon with a lot of control like klefki that can be helped by another tm like sleeping talk / fairy dreams and bannete who can use dark portal, dragonite has a lot of speed and a pasive that can make you fail (extreme speed). I just thought that aerial ace + thunder punch can be a good combo

 

[Raissa]

Have you seen any dragonite with another stun tm other than water pulse? because i dont. I don't see the problem in removing water pulse / sleep talk / wild charger / dizzy punch, it's been done before, nor do I think they have been very useful or viable for a dragonite.

I do see a problem. Bunch of water pulses in the market, we remove tm only if there are few learned by certain pokemon.