PAPOI Spawns experience and stuff.

[Sheeper]

Good evening.
First of all, it's not any kind of offence to people who camp there, yet I'm aware many people won't like it, because their gameplay would get slightly harder than it is now, but it's time to stop that I think.

Basic problem
- The basic problem is, obviously, the amount of exp gained there by pokemons, Yes, players aren't getting exp there anymore, but who cares about level at 160+? Pokemons exp is the thing that matters, that's why this zone is still insane.

Main Suggestion
Here's my suggestion for the whole papoi area
1) Reduce experience gained by our pokes by 75%
2) Enable exp for players again, but also reduce it by 75%
3) Reduce Espeons/Umbreons level to 120 to make them catchable (optional)

ad. 1
- That's the main part of it. There are several people who level up there, that spawn is nearly all the time taken and people lvl up their pokes insanely fast there, but the worst things there are... alakazams. Their pretty low amount of health allows people to exp not only psy-type counters, but every single other type pokes... Waters, electric, fire? The only thing you need is AoE attack and you're getting massive exp for that poke there, what's worse, you can level up even 60lvl pokes there, and 60 -> 100 will take 1, maybe 2 days there, isn't that crazy? And what's even worse, you have the stairs here! I bet a lot of exp services are going there alone or sharing exp with someone and get a lot of cash without much work (but that's not that big problem). Sorry, but when I see a 60milotic getting levels like crazy on massive kazams spot, that seems ridiculous, don't you think? (sry grayfoxx for using u as example, that's just one of many).

ad. 2
- At the other hand, to not make this spawn totally useless and just for quest purposes, enabling exp might make this place some alternative, not totally useless, since you'll be getting some exp there, and with such amount of pokes, that won't be that low leveling spot...

ad. 3
That's slightly related to point 2. To not make this place useless, make it catcher's heaven where they could finally catch espeon and umbreon (ofcourse with a pretty low catch rate cause of their levels and catch rarity). That would be a kind of recompensate for taking the godlike exp spot away.

Notes
- Constructive Criticism welcomed
- Feel free to add your own idea or tell me your opinion
- use some reasonable arguments, not just a "disagree" (we all know why you'd disagree)
- I'd like to ask staff to really take care of it, since that's insane what happens here.
- If you hadn't got any chance to see that spawn on your own, just check some people's LT and you'll see what I'm talking about.
- No, that spawns isn't that hard to reward it with such incredible exp.

Let the discussion begin.

Best Regards
Sheeper

 

[Raissa]

I do totally agree with you, we have been planning to edit stages for players and for pokes, but due to fact that we have a lot of duties now [fairy rebalance related, some hoenn, quest(s), easter event, jano's stuff, update etc]. However I'll ask about it today once again.

Also, we'll add some extra hp to wild Alakazams, it's kinda low because of restore.

The only thing I disagree is making espeon and umbreons catchable. They should stay as they are, something harder to get in your catch counter, since it's a lot dependant on luck while opening boxes.

 

[Sheeper]

I do totally agree with you, we have been planning to edit stages for players and for pokes, but due to fact that we have a lot of duties now [fairy rebalance related, some hoenn, quest(s), easter event, jano's stuff, update etc]. However I'll ask about it today once again.

Also, we'll add some extra hp to wild Alakazams, it's kinda low because of restore.

The only thing I disagree is making espeon and umbreons catchable. They should stay as they are, something harder to get in your catch counter, since it's a lot dependant on luck while opening boxes.

That's why Espeon's idea was marked as optional, expected such answer tbh. (beside some hate that suddenly didn't appeared from papoi grinders [they might be busy hunting kazams :V]).

Edit: Cofam to o hejcie xD

 

[Grayfoox]

well, my only "excuse" I think it's because now that we loose exp there (I've lost 4 levels there atm, I was 195, now I'm 191) I exp there because I have no time to play and most of respawns are boring (sorry, but we don't have any insane respawn where we could win exp) and "don't die" it's like an achievement for me to exp here (really, I've died thousand times there, funny shits most of them) xD

but yes, I'm agreed that you can exp really fast there, but you can die easily there too

 

[Sheeper]

well, my only "excuse" I think it's because now that we loose exp there (I've lost 4 levels there atm, I was 195, now I'm 191) I exp there because I have no time to play and most of respawns are boring (sorry, but we don't have any insane respawn where we could win exp) and "don't die" it's like an achievement for me to exp here (really, I've died thousand times there, funny shits most of them) xD

but yes, I'm agreed that you can exp really fast there, but you can die easily there too

The lost exp is a price for those tons of levels there ^^

 

[Grayfoox]

Sorry, but when I see a 60milotic getting levels like crazy on massive kazams spot, that seems ridiculous, don't you think? (sry grayfoxx for using u as example, that's just one of many).

Also, these pictures aren't from 1 or 2 days xDD as I said, I only play 1-2 hrs per day and it's like 4-5 levels per day

 

[Tsotss]

What next, INQ zone?

 

[Sheeper]

What next, INQ zone?

I was thinking about it, but that's not the same story since you can't level a goddam nincada there xD

 

[Grayfoox]

What next, INQ zone?

INQ area is insanely hard to be there alone without die xD this could be the best place to start putting exp again in shared experience

 

[Tsotss]

Yesterday I was tired to write something about it. Now I'll do it and hope it would be constructive "critisism". I agree with your basic problem. It's true that those resps, mainly psy room is insane, but looking on it, easy I can say and maybe ask what with the similar resps which are insane too, I mean:
* Gengar Mansion,
* Some resps (mainly grass) 100+,
* All zone (less ice zone) in 150+ resps.
* Some arenas on INQ resps (mainy electro couse of immunes' ground pokes) and fire/water zone propably.
These are resps which I have any concept about this, idk are more than these.
"Who cares about level at 160+": it's the mainly reason why players 160+ hunting there with their pokemons, becouse any quests 160+ except INQ (more of players have done at 161/162vls), any NICE resps to hunt by getting yourself lvl, becouse of players who are on mainly resps where easy level goes of character or our pokemons. What they have to do after 160lvl? Nothing, only get a new pokemons and exp them and catch pokemons to be the best catcher.

Now I will try to relate to your annotations:
1) Agree of course to reduce experience gained by our pokemons, but wait to 75%? I don't think it's good solutions. Why? As Raissa said - raising amount of life and already added Secret Power move to wild Kazams would make exp there little harder, it's nice, but don't you think it will be too much at one time? I would suggest to reduce experience to 85% with those all changes, atleast to 80%, but not lower by 1/4exp. And yes, stairs there help a lot. Also worth remembering is that what Grayfoox said - we lose there our level, dead after dead, 2% after 2%. Really if someone only exp there is too much becouse a lot of dies.
In my opinion when these changes will be applied in game, some people would go to INQ zone couse of amazing fire resps to exp ( mainly water/ground pokes ) or electro ( I see that now there a lot of people hunt ) and other too. It's enough to have Reflect in move or in TM's.
2)Huberto suggested and propably other too about enabling exp for players there, but when they're in party or something other (don't remember what it was exactly). Enabling it and gives 75% for players' exp for me will be too much. Before they disabled exp for players, people receives there around 600k-1million exp per hour. It depends how people exp there. For me could be reduce to 50%, max 60% of gained experience.
3) Here, as Raissa, totally disagree. Some pokemons should be only catchable by the boxes. If they will add it, why don't add resps of Hitmonlee/Hitmonchan and other which are only catchable by getting it from boxes. Let it be as it is.

In conclusions - it's nice that one of players care about those types of resps, but:
* as I said - if Alakazams' amount life will raising and this Secret Power move already added it would be too much decreasing experince gained by pokemons to 75%,
* propably (in my opinion) when it will happned and players see that experience is lower, more resps will be insane (players 160+ easy would go to INQ zone in party), most of them would be too busy,
*enabling exp for players would be good, but as I said to max 60% ( with old getting experience there ) propably would be around 300-400k per hour, for me it's enough
I think it's enogh from mine side. If I will remind or "get" any idea, I'll write here. Hope all what I wrote is clearly.

 

[Tiago Monteiro]

Yesterday I was tired to write something about it. Now I'll do it and hope it would be constructive "critisism". I agree with your basic problem. It's true that those resps, mainly psy room is insane, but looking on it, easy I can say and maybe ask what with the similar resps which are insane too, I mean:
* Gengar Mansion,
* Some resps (mainly grass) 100+,
* All zone (less ice zone) in 150+ resps.
* Some arenas on INQ resps (mainy electro couse of immunes' ground pokes) and fire/water zone propably.
These are resps which I have any concept about this, idk are more than these.
"Who cares about level at 160+": it's the mainly reason why players 160+ hunting there with their pokemons, becouse any quests 160+ except INQ (more of players have done at 161/162vls), any NICE resps to hunt by getting yourself lvl, becouse of players who are on mainly resps where easy level goes of character or our pokemons. What they have to do after 160lvl? Nothing, only get a new pokemons and exp them and catch pokemons to be the best catcher.

Now I will try to relate to your annotations:
1) Agree of course to reduce experience gained by our pokemons, but wait to 75%? I don't think it's good solutions. Why? As Raissa said - raising amount of life and already added Secret Power move to wild Kazams would make exp there little harder, it's nice, but don't you think it will be too much at one time? I would suggest to reduce experience to 85% with those all changes, atleast to 80%, but not lower by 1/4exp. And yes, stairs there help a lot. Also worth remembering is that what Grayfoox said - we lose there our level, dead after dead, 2% after 2%. Really if someone only exp there is too much becouse a lot of dies.
In my opinion when these changes will be applied in game, some people would go to INQ zone couse of amazing fire resps to exp ( mainly water/ground pokes ) or electro ( I see that now there a lot of people hunt ) and other too. It's enough to have Reflect in move or in TM's.
2)Huberto suggested and propably other too about enabling exp for players there, but when they're in party or something other (don't remember what it was exactly). Enabling it and gives 75% for players' exp for me will be too much. Before they disabled exp for players, people receives there around 600k-1million exp per hour. It depends how people exp there. For me could be reduce to 50%, max 60% of gained experience.
3) Here, as Raissa, totally disagree. Some pokemons should be only catchable by the boxes. If they will add it, why don't add resps of Hitmonlee/Hitmonchan and other which are only catchable by getting it from boxes. Let it be as it is.

In conclusions - it's nice that one of players care about those types of resps, but:
* as I said - if Alakazams' amount life will raising and this Secret Power move already added it would be too much decreasing experince gained by pokemons to 75%,
* propably (in my opinion) when it will happned and players see that experience is lower, more resps will be insane (players 160+ easy would go to INQ zone in party), most of them would be too busy,
*enabling exp for players would be good, but as I said to max 60% ( with old getting experience there ) propably would be around 300-400k per hour, for me it's enough
I think it's enogh from mine side. If I will remind or "get" any idea, I'll write here. Hope all what I wrote is clearly.

It's not reduce to 75% but by 75%, which is totally different. His suggestion is pokemon to get less 75% than the actual. Still, I totally agree with it(not with the numbers but with the idea of huge nerf), even if wild alakazams have been boosted.
I saw people there getting like 1 lvl in their pokemons in less than 10 minutes with revives (I even did it myself before a tournament lvling a banette with reflect from 90 to 128 as far as I remember in like 4h (and I'm very noob lvling cuz it could be done way faster there)) that's totally out of sense. A pokemon most be at least a bit hard and take some time to be full lvled.

Also you mentioned some "insane" areas to exp that Imo are totally normal. Some of them even have to be boosted cuz for example players 150+ rather to lvl in Elemental quest than Palace. Those areas are great and if any of those u said needs to be reworked is to be boosted Imo.

 

[Tsotss]

It's not reduce to 75% but by 75%, which is totally different. His suggestion is pokemon to get less 75% than the actual. Still, I totally agree with it(not with the numbers but with the idea of huge nerf), even if wild alakazams have been boosted.

So I totally got wrong this point. So now, for me it would be too much decreasing. I don't talk it becouse I want to hunt there always. I hunt there hardly ever, becouse I don't need it. Now, when I've already understood this the diffrent "to" or "by", I'll suggest then to decreasing it by 30-40%~. Still, for me by 75% it's too high. Do it ( decrease by 75% ) and later you would see compaining about quickly doing level for pokemons in INQ zone, it would be the same situation like here in papoi, couse all of 160+ players will go there and exp there pokemon as fast as in papoi with revives. In party more easier. Who cares if somebody isn't careful and die in papoi or INQ, here and here lose 2% of experience, so.. Yes, in INQ is harder, but if player X knows how to move or use the place, player doesn't die so fast as some players think.

First you decreased exp in 100+grass (understandable). Now you think about decreasing papoi zone (agree with it, but not with the mainly idea), later will be INQ couse the same reason as it, later what? Give some advantages in resps for high level players, becouse after 160+ they don't have what to do, only catch and exp their pokes and they don't have nice resps as I said. Lot of lower level players crying ( sometimes I do the same when I hunt in noobs ) that in Gengar Mansion are people with level at 140/160+, when I go to grass 100+resp - it's the same and other amazing resps have the same situations.

@edit:
Sheeper with Reflect/kind of Protection (what most of our teams have) is EASY to exp everywhere.
@edit2:
That I got wrong point with "to" and "by" I agree to make for players enable experience to reduce by 70-75% as Sheeper's said.

 

[Sheeper]

Some explaination from me
First of all, as Tiago said, numbers might be changed, but they need to remain huge, That's pretty insane spawn, I leveled there as one of first players as I done the first papoi and thought about leveling there, made umbreon from 90 to ~125 (not really sure) took me maybe two days, I made two character levels (166-168) in like 5 hours there (when the spawn was still giving the exp). And even the kazams boost won't change it since pokes will still kill them pretty fast, Papoi gives 4-5x more exp than 150+ spawns, while 150+ requires higher lvl and still isn't that good.
And Lewuseq, you just compared unbalanced spawn to other unbalanced spawns (like mansion, which imo also requires a nerf).

You also used INQ as example, but there's a little diffrence, Papoi allows you to level pretty low lvl pokes there, while paINQ requires your team to be pretty strong (as you kindly mentioned) and it's much harder to survive at INQ than papoi, the only hard thing about alakazams spawn is the way there, which can be reached alone aswell. Too bad there's no counter how much exp per hour is every or your pokemon getting as it's with players level, it would perfectly show the insanity of that spawn.

And the last thing, I still think lowering exp BY 75% (not to 75%) would be good, it would still be as good as, for example, most of 150+ spawns.

 

[Grayfoox]

You also used INQ as example, but there's a little diffrence, Papoi allows you to level pretty low lvl pokes there, while paINQ requires your team to be pretty strong (as you kindly mentioned)

Well I need to say this, for me, it's impossible to exp there with pokes with no protection/reflect move because, in the moment that all the pokes see your pokemon, they attack it as fast as posible, receiving more than 20k of damage per wave of attacks, so this isn't really true (all the pokes that I've exp there, has protection, reflect or hurricane/dive/underground) to keep the poke alive, without this move, is really hard and boring, also the amount of revives used with pokes with no protect move, is insane, believe me xD

 

[Sheeper]

Well I need to say this, for me, it's impossible to exp there with pokes with no protection/reflect move because, in the moment that all the pokes see your pokemon, they attack it as fast as posible, receiving more than 20k of damage per wave of attacks, so this isn't really true (all the pokes that I've exp there, has protection, reflect or hurricane/dive/underground) to keep the poke alive, without this move, is really hard and boring, also the amount of revives used with pokes with no protect move, is insane, believe me xD

it is possible to exp low lvl pokes, but yes, it consumes a lot of revives/patience, but still grant massive exp income, and defensive move for 60lvl pokes aren't any excuse after all.

 

[Raissa]

- For now I can assure you, that exp stages for players (mostly level 100-, but not only) and pokemons have been reworked [reduced] <- will be applied after update
- Wild Alakazam will receive extra HP, if we'll think it's not enough, we will add more
- In the future we might add more good respawns.

 

[Tiago Monteiro]

Well I need to say this, for me, it's impossible to exp there with pokes with no protection/reflect move because, in the moment that all the pokes see your pokemon, they attack it as fast as posible, receiving more than 20k of damage per wave of attacks, so this isn't really true (all the pokes that I've exp there, has protection, reflect or hurricane/dive/underground) to keep the poke alive, without this move, is really hard and boring, also the amount of revives used with pokes with no protect move, is insane, believe me xD

Well, that can be true, but when I see an Eevee getting 130 there (even if it was done with party) just says perfectly how op this spawn is

@sheeper
I don't think we also should nerf gengars mansion, this spawn can look a bit op but it's also huge and can be splited by 2 players perfectly