Quest Pokémon level 150 || Poll

[Nymeria]

i voted NO. Why? well, i dont have the time to exp my pokes to 150, + current exp system, even tho is much better now ( new hunting areas included), is not THAT GOOD.
If u are planning on adding a quest just to get pokes to 150, its a no for me.
But if u plan on creating a new system + new areas, to allow ppl to exp pokes, with more exp on party hunts + party areas, its a yes.
Current exping mechanics aint that great to HAVE to exp untill 150 imo.
so, my answer depends on HOW this is going to be ingame xD.
new system = yes
current system = noty.

 

[Juangutierrez]

I have never compared myself with selasor, knightmare, sting(i didn't say that)

I'm not like selasor, i am like players who prefer not to level up and sometimes bought new pokemons to try level up and after that we usually sell them.
Because the most of players are more like that including myself. and is not a comprain that is my perspective that i have about the game.



If you are going to answer in that infantile way about things you don't like, there is no reason to ask to padventures players, at the end you are GM

PS.

b) I was dueling plenty of times, I don't do it anymore, because too busy with other stuff
PS. Your "collection'' isn't that huge tho, 22 pookemons, and only 8 of them have level 130.

Seems like that she does have time after all



*As for the bugs of duels, I will post "I wait to be worthy of that you comment on my post"

 

[Skyrus]

If you change rare candy from used max on lvl 99 to 129 or 119 sure, people who don't like leveling and only love to pvp it's really hard leveling some of the really good pvp pokemon. Also daycare should be extented aswell for those who want to level their pokemon with a lower amount of cash but rather wait longer for their levels. (Also some people like to have first evolution high level pokemons because why not have a magikarp lvl 120 or 130 , this would enable them to leave it longer in daycare)

Also you should keep it max at 150 if you decide to change it, balance will be different after this change. At some point you got to decide a max cap which is fine at 150 since it was 130 for a long time.

So just for the case of pvpers, I vote Yes if you change the possibility for rare candies and daycare (I don't care if you make like golden rare candies for the higher levels but they shouldn't be to hard to obtain), If you wont change this I vote for No.

I'm currently retired but I always return in time (I only like to pvp, this is the only reason I come back to play)

 

[Gruby Mietek]

I vote yes because qm tem limite é municipio

Nice english

 

[medz]

I vote yes because qm tem limite é municipio

Best point so far

I think we can close the thread

 

[Nefertiti]

I say no.
Why? As you said the increase of level from 130 to 150 won't damage the duels cuz the difference between 110 and 130 will be the same for 130 and 150, ok if its the same why lose time on this if at the final this will be the same, you said this is going to motivate the game but the true is that you are forcing the players to lvl up, as you can see most of the players like to stay afk on pvp waiting for a duel, they are a few that really like to lvl up and catch.

You say you won't need to fix anything but you forgot about the war system? You need to increase the life of the characters cuz the damage of the moves increase too, as many will know a critical hit at wars is the "FEINT" that hits 4k-4.1k of damage and can kill a player 120-130 or more, now imagine what this will be with an increment of level, this could damage the system at all and you will need to fix some things, as scarfaces (one of the best players of PA) said.

I dont want to offend the staff with my oppinion but i think you should dedicate that time on new missions, finish alola, hoenn or other plans you had in the past.
Good luck guys
Att: Inhoted

 

[Torment Xtreme]

THANKS LEO FOR CLOSING MY THREAD, IT SAYS A LOT OF HOW THINGS WORK AROUND HERE.

I was looking for a clear explanation without a huge amount of posts covering it. So everyone could see. But, thanks man, really.

 

[Hohenheim]

THANKS LEO FOR CLOSING MY THREAD, IT SAYS A LOT OF HOW THINGS WORK AROUND HERE.

I was looking for a clear explanation without a huge amount of posts covering it. So everyone could see. But, thanks man, really.

Everyone can see it here as well, if they can't read a huge amount of posts then they aren't even interested in the matter.

 

[Zelricks]

THANKS LEO FOR CLOSING MY THREAD, IT SAYS A LOT OF HOW THINGS WORK AROUND HERE.

I was looking for a clear explanation without a huge amount of posts covering it. So everyone could see. But, thanks man, really.

I don't know why does this concern you too much, if you aren't playing anymore since 1 year, we are of course accepting your arguments, but game changed a lot since december, when Nino was kicked, let's say we're less limited.

Let me give you - first thing you shall do is opening a thread "our plans for 2017".
Find there some points, for example
- Battle Towers
- tasks to get mega evolution item will be available only for players, who have finished quest, some pokemons will be able to megaevolve at level 135-140.
- Pokemon stats, that will be available for everyone but better ones only pokemons with level 131+
- Unique tasks with good rewards, for example some of held items, that we will add in future.
- New achievements and rewards

At the beginning we were planning to base only stats system on it and new achievement plus some mega bosses, those who were in pvp today probably saw mega gallade.
After a little conversation between some staff members, we decided to put more things there.

Professions is our fresh idea, it's a little mix of promotion quest. Professions will be based on Pokemons' types. Every profession is going to have different benefits, I am unable to tell you right now which professions and which benefits, because as I said, it's fresh idea with a skeleton sketch in our heads, but as good sketch, as we know to which point we want to go ^^.
Some professions, for example archeologist will have unique pokemon, which is Tyrunt, besides this little boost on rock type moves and resistance to rock type moves. Other profession will be able to create new balls with better catch rates etc.
I cannot describe everything right now, because it's not time for it and not the right thread.
When the right time comes to release the system, we will be collecting players suggestion for every profession we want to create.

Remember please, that in some parts I used words "some" in case of professions.

- People who know alola and Pokemon Sun&Moon games or anime, probably remember that there are Z-moves, which are basically stronger moves, something different than a TM, because there is only one Z move per type, however, we want to add respective Z-moves that some pokemon can hold, for example Eeevee evolutions or Snorlax and a... pikachu. Yes, we were planning to balance Pikachu to let players to level it up to a high level and feel like Ash Ketchum ;D

You are keep talking about players, who dislike whole idea and let's be honest, most of them do because of laziness. Have you ever thought that there are several players who already reached their goals and left or will leave the game because of lack of motivation? Of course I realize, that there is our fault in it, I'm not going to mention that we were always fair or kind for players or that some have left because of our fault unrelated to game systems, but more likely to our behavior. We aren't perfect, nobody is, it's very stressful, not only because of some players, but also because of work we have to do. Don't tell me to change work then - many people are stressed of their in real life jobs or other things, that doesn't mean we cannot be stressed or lose patience, because of game and players. However, we are trying and we will keep trying to be more kind for you and get better. At this point I would like to say I am sorry for everyone, who have ever felt bad because of us - being unkind or unfair (not unfair because we deleted you for using macro in casino or abusing of some bugs).
You are sticking to your arguments, as we do to ours. You are telling us to look from the other side - side of players, so I will ask you to look from the other side too - side of players, who are agreeing on whole idea. For many of them it is a new motivation to play, leave pvp, level up, get new opportunities or challenges. Besides of this, as I said there are more things planned to be added in the future (no, not soon, there's no nino anymore, so let's forget this word already).
Quest, let's call it secret adventures is a base to do other things we plan.
If you aren't motivated to level, then well, you should play games, where you don't have to exp (you even have to in nintendo games). Padventures has many aspects, pvp and experience, one is related to another. If you want to be a dueler, you need to exp a bit. Remember it's limited unlike to tibia or well known pxg.

Don't make us stay in place where we are, and let us go on. Every game gets advanced after some years from release. Tibia does and many other games do.

At the end of my post I would like to say once again. Experience stages for Pokemons will change. It will be easier to exp to level 130, than it is now.

If players have reasons to level up pokemons to 130, they will find their own reason to level up to 150.

 

[Torment Xtreme]

I don't know why does this concern you too much, if you aren't playing anymore since 1 year, we are of course accepting your arguments, but game changed a lot since december, when Nino was kicked, let's say we're less limited.

Let me give you - first thing you shall do is opening a thread "our plans for 2017".
Find there some points, for example
- Battle Towers
- tasks to get mega evolution item will be available only for players, who have finished quest, some pokemons will be able to megaevolve at level 135-140.
- Pokemon stats, that will be available for everyone but better ones only pokemons with level 131+
- Unique tasks with good rewards, for example some of held items, that we will add in future.
- New achievements and rewards

At the beginning we were planning to base only stats system on it and new achievement plus some mega bosses, those who were in pvp today probably saw mega gallade.
After a little conversation between some staff members, we decided to put more things there.

Professions is our fresh idea, it's a little mix of promotion quest. Professions will be based on Pokemons' types. Every profession is going to have different benefits, I am unable to tell you right now which professions and which benefits, because as I said, it's fresh idea with a skeleton sketch in our heads, but as good sketch, as we know to which point we want to go ^^.
Some professions, for example archeologist will have unique pokemon, which is Tyrunt, besides this little boost on rock type moves and resistance to rock type moves. Other profession will be able to create new balls with better catch rates etc.
I cannot describe everything right now, because it's not time for it and not the right thread.
When the right time comes to release the system, we will be collecting players suggestion for every profession we want to create.

Remember please, that in some parts I used words "some" in case of professions.

- People who know alola and Pokemon Sun&Moon games or anime, probably remember that there are Z-moves, which are basically stronger moves, something different than a TM, because there is only one Z move per type, however, we want to add respective Z-moves that some pokemon can hold, for example Eeevee evolutions or Snorlax and a... pikachu. Yes, we were planning to balance Pikachu to let players to level it up to a high level and feel like Ash Ketchum ;D

You are keep talking about players, who dislike whole idea and let's be honest, most of them do because of laziness. Have you ever thought that there are several players who already reached their goals and left or will leave the game because of lack of motivation? Of course I realize, that there is our fault in it, I'm not going to mention that we were always fair or kind for players or that some have left because of our fault unrelated to game systems, but more likely to our behavior. We aren't perfect, nobody is, it's very stressful, not only because of some players, but also because of work we have to do. Don't tell me to change work then - many people are stressed of their in real life jobs or other things, that doesn't mean we cannot be stressed or lose patience, because of game and players. However, we are trying and we will keep trying to be more kind for you and get better. At this point I would like to say I am sorry for everyone, who have ever felt bad because of us - being unkind or unfair (not unfair because we deleted you for using macro in casino or abusing of some bugs).
You are sticking to your arguments, as we do to ours. You are telling us to look from the other side - side of players, so I will ask you to look from the other side too - side of players, who are agreeing on whole idea. For many of them it is a new motivation to play, leave pvp, level up, get new opportunities or challenges. Besides of this, as I said there are more things planned to be added in the future (no, not soon, there's no nino anymore, so let's forget this word already).
Quest, let's call it secret adventures is a base to do other things we plan.
If you aren't motivated to level, then well, you should play games, where you don't have to exp (you even have to in nintendo games). Padventures has many aspects, pvp and experience, one is related to another. If you want to be a dueler, you need to exp a bit. Remember it's limited unlike to tibia or well known pxg.

Don't make us stay in place where we are, and let us go on. Every game gets advanced after some years from release. Tibia does and many other games do.

At the end of my post I would like to say once again. Experience stages for Pokemons will change. It will be easier to exp to level 130, than it is now.

If players have reasons to level up pokemons to 130, they will find their own reason to level up to 150.

Thanks for your answer, i read all of it and understand everything. I know how hard the work there is, remember i was working with you guys fora little over 2 years. I'm not judging you. But i'm asking for answers to a couple questions that have been avoided.

Since you know everything of it, i hope you can answer my questions the same way you did with that post.

Besides although i've not played in the last 10 months +-, i've gotten the news of most of things in game. But, i really don't see how this quest is necessary for the game to improve in a good way, the good sides of a system or quest applied to the game should have as priority the attraction of players to it, get new players and for it to be enjoyed by all in a permanent way or at the very least for years.


Not trying to be annoying or become a hater cuz i'm not, just think that clear explanations should be given. I apologize if someone got a wrong idea though.

And for last, although i can't play now, it does concern me since i do plan to go back to play at some point and i expect to go back to a cool game which i can enjoy.


Edit: i like the idea of giving players a motivation, i know people who left the game for lack of it. I've been saying since a very long time ago that what is needed is to attract new players and give motivation to old players that keep playing, but this quest is not the way and there are plenty of solid arguments on this thread to prove it. I don't remember their names, but one who gave good arguments was Dagugo. Get new ideas directed to attract people, not to make the game freaking easy, but attractive for everyone to play.

 

[bennet321]

i vote yes because qm tem limite é municipio

pisa meeeeeeeeeenos

 

[Raissa]

I don't know which questions you mean, if those from your thread;

HOW WILL THIS QUEST ATTRACT NEW PLAYERS? HOW WILL IT KEEP NEW PLAYERS AND OLD PLAYERS? HOW DOES IT BENEFIT PLAYERS EXACTLY

1. That has nothing to do with new players, if they are coming to game, they are not getting attracted by one thing, but by the whole, it's not like one quest or two quests are going to be attractive for them. If they are starting to play the game, they are usualy getting addapted to it and there are many things that make them stay. In fact we - staff, tutors, gms, cms talk with some newcommers and every of them say different thing, starting at people, new friendships, multilanguage game (english based, so they are not forced to use translator to understand spanish or portuguese), systems etc.
I feel like you came here to fight, so I assume you have been studying marketing and you know how to get - as some people say "customers", make them stay/come back. I hate this word but I actually had to use it. Could you share this info with us? I absolutely don't want to be mean, so if you take this way, I am sorry. We treat this game like some kind of "hobby", we may do mistakes or so.

2. Old players will have things to do in game, besides exping side, there will be many more benefits related to pvp and "adventures". One is related to another. If there are many players who are agreeing with us, it means we aren't the only ones who think this way. As I said before, we asked players if they want - if the result will be a "no", then we won't do that and it will simply mean we are going in the wrong way. Players can also suggest us what they want in another thread of this forum called "what do high level want in this game' or something like that.
I know, that we could do the same for level 130, but we want to do a little bit "higher jump" without being stick all the time to the same level gap (for 5 years). We won't extend later for any higher.
As I can see not only from forum but also from game chats, many people who want it are just lazy, don't even deny, because some comments clearly show it. Some people have said it straight on game chats. Other side goes to players who want to level up their pokemons to 150 - it would simply motivate them to use their pokemons once again or leave pvp and exp. Everyone is right at some point, but there are people, who are wrong, it could be even me.

3. Benefits have been described by Zelricks.

Any other questions that have to be answered and are not repeated?

@Juangutierrez

b) I was dueling plenty of times, I don't do it anymore, because too busy with other stuff
PS. Your "collection'' isn't that huge tho, 22 pookemons, and only 8 of them have level 130.

Seems like that she does have time after all

What the f...
I don't have time for duels, because I am busy with other, more important game stuff, such as alola update.

 

[Baahdu]

I vote yes.
I need some incentive for keep playing and this will help.


Sad to see that the main reason for players vote 'no' it's because they are lazy and want to keep good status as PVP player without playing or lvling pokes.


I probably don't even have level for this quest yet but i hope it happens. (some new good hunt areas not only for 150+ also welcome)

 

[andreina]

I don't know why does this concern you too much, if you aren't playing anymore since 1 year, we are of course accepting your arguments, but game changed a lot since december, when Nino was kicked, let's say we're less limited.

Let me give you - first thing you shall do is opening a thread "our plans for 2017".
Find there some points, for example
- Battle Towers
- tasks to get mega evolution item will be available only for players, who have finished quest, some pokemons will be able to megaevolve at level 135-140.
- Pokemon stats, that will be available for everyone but better ones only pokemons with level 131+
- Unique tasks with good rewards, for example some of held items, that we will add in future.
- New achievements and rewards

At the beginning we were planning to base only stats system on it and new achievement plus some mega bosses, those who were in pvp today probably saw mega gallade.
After a little conversation between some staff members, we decided to put more things there.

Professions is our fresh idea, it's a little mix of promotion quest. Professions will be based on Pokemons' types. Every profession is going to have different benefits, I am unable to tell you right now which professions and which benefits, because as I said, it's fresh idea with a skeleton sketch in our heads, but as good sketch, as we know to which point we want to go ^^.
Some professions, for example archeologist will have unique pokemon, which is Tyrunt, besides this little boost on rock type moves and resistance to rock type moves. Other profession will be able to create new balls with better catch rates etc.
I cannot describe everything right now, because it's not time for it and not the right thread.
When the right time comes to release the system, we will be collecting players suggestion for every profession we want to create.

Remember please, that in some parts I used words "some" in case of professions.

- People who know alola and Pokemon Sun&Moon games or anime, probably remember that there are Z-moves, which are basically stronger moves, something different than a TM, because there is only one Z move per type, however, we want to add respective Z-moves that some pokemon can hold, for example Eeevee evolutions or Snorlax and a... pikachu. Yes, we were planning to balance Pikachu to let players to level it up to a high level and feel like Ash Ketchum ;D

You are keep talking about players, who dislike whole idea and let's be honest, most of them do because of laziness. Have you ever thought that there are several players who already reached their goals and left or will leave the game because of lack of motivation? Of course I realize, that there is our fault in it, I'm not going to mention that we were always fair or kind for players or that some have left because of our fault unrelated to game systems, but more likely to our behavior. We aren't perfect, nobody is, it's very stressful, not only because of some players, but also because of work we have to do. Don't tell me to change work then - many people are stressed of their in real life jobs or other things, that doesn't mean we cannot be stressed or lose patience, because of game and players. However, we are trying and we will keep trying to be more kind for you and get better. At this point I would like to say I am sorry for everyone, who have ever felt bad because of us - being unkind or unfair (not unfair because we deleted you for using macro in casino or abusing of some bugs).
You are sticking to your arguments, as we do to ours. You are telling us to look from the other side - side of players, so I will ask you to look from the other side too - side of players, who are agreeing on whole idea. For many of them it is a new motivation to play, leave pvp, level up, get new opportunities or challenges. Besides of this, as I said there are more things planned to be added in the future (no, not soon, there's no nino anymore, so let's forget this word already).
Quest, let's call it secret adventures is a base to do other things we plan.
If you aren't motivated to level, then well, you should play games, where you don't have to exp (you even have to in nintendo games). Padventures has many aspects, pvp and experience, one is related to another. If you want to be a dueler, you need to exp a bit. Remember it's limited unlike to tibia or well known pxg.

Don't make us stay in place where we are, and let us go on. Every game gets advanced after some years from release. Tibia does and many other games do.

At the end of my post I would like to say once again. Experience stages for Pokemons will change. It will be easier to exp to level 130, than it is now.

If players have reasons to level up pokemons to 130, they will find their own reason to level up to 150.

Can you stop giving candies for approbation? xd You're doing that since the start of your post, the reason why i'm not agree to implement this? Easy, those thing you promise, can be done without the need of implementing pokes 150 system, or is it extrictly necessary to do it?

telling us, we will give you more quests, we will give you more respawns, please, you can do it without the need of this quest, or are you saying that, without this quest you won't do anything?

 

[bennet321]

I vote yes.
I need some incentive for keep playing and this will help.


Sad to see that the main reason for players vote 'no' it's because they are lazy and want to keep good status as PVP player without playing or lvling pokes.


I probably don't even have level for this quest yet but i hope it happens. (some new good hunt areas not only for 150+ also welcome)

About better resp also for 150- i agreee.. i cant take anymore gengar mansion and grass 100+ please

 

[Torment Xtreme]

I don't know which questions you mean, if those from your thread;

1. That has nothing to do with new players, if they are coming to game, they are not getting attracted by one thing, but by the whole, it's not like one quest or two quests are going to be attractive for them. If they are starting to play the game, they are usualy getting addapted to it and there are many things that make them stay. In fact we - staff, tutors, gms, cms talk with some newcommers and every of them say different thing, starting at people, new friendships, multilanguage game (english based, so they are not forced to use translator to understand spanish or portuguese), systems etc.
I feel like you came here to fight, so I assume you have been studying marketing and you know how to get - as some people say "customers", make them stay/come back. I hate this word but I actually had to use it. Could you share this info with us? I absolutely don't want to be mean, so if you take this way, I am sorry. We treat this game like some kind of "hobby", we may do mistakes or so.

2. Old players will have things to do in game, besides exping side, there will be many more benefits related to pvp and "adventures". One is related to another. If there are many players who are agreeing with us, it means we aren't the only ones who think this way. As I said before, we asked players if they want - if the result will be a "no", then we won't do that and it will simply mean we are going in the wrong way. Players can also suggest us what they want in another thread of this forum called "what do high level want in this game' or something like that.
I know, that we could do the same for level 130, but we want to do a little bit "higher jump" without being stick all the time to the same level gap (for 5 years). We won't extend later for any higher.
As I can see not only from forum but also from game chats, many people who want it are just lazy, don't even deny, because some comments clearly show it. Some people have said it straight on game chats. Other side goes to players who want to level up their pokemons to 150 - it would simply motivate them to use their pokemons once again or leave pvp and exp. Everyone is right at some point, but there are people, who are wrong, it could be even me.

3. Benefits have been described by Zelricks.

Any other questions that have to be answered and are not repeated?

@Juangutierrez

What the f...
I don't have time for duels, because I am busy with other, more important game stuff, such as alola update.

Oh, i sincerely apologize, i didn't come here to fight at all, i came here for answers about the benefits of this quest to the whole game. I don't take it in a bad way either, so is ok. I also know it is some kind of hobby, but i know you want the best for this game. That's why i insist in asking how it attracts new people, as you've replied, it is not the purpose of making this new quest, so i'm wondering, why would it be done if there are urgent matters such as attracting new players? The thing is as you say, is needed many things for that, but you do realize that the amount of players joining this game barely covers the amount of players leaving it, right? This must be the very top priority.

Thinking this way, i keep wondering why use such precious time to work on something unneeded and not working on the attraction of new players? Different systems to attract new players attention will eventually work, maybe not with 1 or 2 systems, but a few of them is a start for it to be done. A good use of time will help the game a lot.

You don't have time to play cuz you're working, but actually playing your game yourself is a very good way of understanding everything, just working on the shadows won't be too effective. Know your business to make it work, otherwise it will end up falling.

Hope you guys don't take anything personal, i don't have such intentions. Just want the best development for this game.

 

[Raissa]

Oh, i sincerely apologize, i didn't come here to fight at all, i came here for answers about the benefits of this quest to the whole game. I don't take it in a bad way either, so is ok. I also know it is some kind of hobby, but i know you want the best for this game. That's why i insist in asking how it attracts new people, as you've replied, it is not the purpose of making this new quest, so i'm wondering, why would it be done if there are urgent matters such as attracting new players? The thing is as you say, is needed many things for that, but you do realize that the amount of players joining this game barely covers the amount of players leaving it, right? This must be the very top priority.

Thinking this way, i keep wondering why use such precious time to work on something unneeded and not working on the attraction of new players? Different systems to attract new players attention will eventually work, maybe not with 1 or 2 systems, but a few of them is a start for it to be done. A good use of time will help the game a lot.

You don't have time to play cuz you're working, but actually playing your game yourself is a very good way of understanding everything, just working on the shadows won't be too effective. Know your business to make it work, otherwise it will end up falling.

Hope you guys don't take anything personal, i don't have such intentions. Just want the best development for this game.

I don't need to play my game myself if I have tutors, gms or cms who I can always ask for an advice or suggestion. We are also here asking the players. That's quite enough.
Attracting new players we cannot forget about those that already play.
For you it's not needed, but as you see around - for some people it is.

I guess you are well informed about our statistic, so let clear your "fake'' info,
In the last month (june) there were 2111 total active players (accounts), from which 811 were premmy. You won't see them online all at once, but that's obvious, do I have to explain why? Maybe better if I do
- players don't play 24/7
- some may log in only for 1h, 2h, 5h, 12h, different people will be online in different hours.

Now, that you say newcommers don't cover leaving players;
Diamond (of course some of them are 2nd chars of other people

pearl

platinum

I guess I have explained everything, Zelricks has explained everything and let the players decide. I am not going to answer anything else concerning newcommers stuff or keeping old players stuff. Everything is described in this thread or other thread on this forum. Explore it better instead basing your opinion only on your friends.
PS. You don't need to worry about attracting newcommers, we will do it sooner or later (not soon).
@Maribel
If you tried to be cool, then sorry but it didn't work. I won't even answer your post because I see it pointless

 

[andreina]

@Maribel
If you tried to be cool, then sorry but it didn't work. I won't even answer your post because I see it pointless

I try to look cool? I'm saying the truth xd, zelricks can't stop telling us that you'll make more quests, more respawns if this system is added, but ok, this will be the last thing i say and will give you a reason to feel better with yourselves.

Good luck and i hope it works and not to see more threads of people complaining daily, like the catch system, boss and exp.

Don't take it personal Zel

 

[Juanda]

platinum

I´m medellin and i don't want pokemon 150+, I vote for "yes", but I have thought and I want to cancel my vote. I read the comments and I thought about my personal reasons and I would like to vote for "no".

 

[verdin]

no juanda