Damage of some Shiny Pokemon.

[NandoCruise]

Hello.

There is something that caught my attention while checking damage of some Shiny Pokemon at Test Room.

Even though Shiny have more HP and 1 or 2 either better or counter moves, I think they should also have 10% (or maybe 5%) damage boost, like with Cloned Pokemon.

Some Shiny Pokemon and their normal Versions have the same damage with the moves they have in common.

so, which shiny pokemon?

1. Shiny Primarina & Primarina.
Moves: Bubbles, Aromatic mist (actually Shiny deals 600 per hit, while normal deals 700 per hit), Aqua Jet, Baby-doll eyes and Sparkling Area.

2. Shiny Excadrill & Excadrill.
All moves they have in common deal same damage.

3. Shiny Druddigon & Druddigon.
All moves they have in common deal same damage.

4. Shiny Golurk & Golurk.
All moves they have in common deal same damage.

5. Shiny Ampharos & Ampharos.
All moves they have in common deal same damage.

6. Shiny Talonflame & Talonflame.
All moves they have in common deal same damage.

7. Shiny Sableye & Sableye.
All moves they have in common deal same damage.

8. Shiny Lucario & Lucario
All moves they have in common deal same damage.

9. Shiny Drapion & Drapion
All moves they have in common deal same damage.

10. Shiny Mawile & Mawile
All moves they have in common deal same damage.

11. Shiny Absol & Absol
All moves they have in common deal same damage.

It is common knowledge that Shiny Pokemon are like the "Cloned" versions from Kanto Pokemon. Which is why I believe they should deal more damage than the normal versions.

What do you guys think?

Regards,
Nando Zoul~

p.s.: From this list of Shinies, I only own 1: Shiny Sableye. I don't want people to think I want my pokes to be OP.

 

[Zecao]

drapion happends same, tasker everytime its telling us

 

[Caxoxd1]

I remember that it was mentioned that the shinies should not always have 10% more damage in the thread of S drapion and Im agreed with that, also I dont understand you because now you want to make shinies to have more damage but some time ago, you suggested to lower the dmg from one.

IMO now is fine that they have more hp and new moves, maybe a little dmg in some moves but, I dont agree to make that they "always " should have 10% more dmg.

Just my opinion

 

[NandoCruise]

I remember that it was mentioned that the shinies should not always have 10% more damage in the thread of S drapion and Im agreed with that, also I dont understand you because now you want to make shinies to have more damage but some time ago, you suggested to lower the dmg from one.

IMO now is fine that they have more hp and new moves, maybe a little dmg in some moves but, I dont agree to make that they "always " should have 10% more dmg.

Just my opinion

I had a feeling you were going to mention Lopunny. But please... I invite you to read the thread again http://www.padventures.org/forum/showthread.php?43206-Shiny-Lopunny&highlight=shiny+lopunny.
I never suggested reducing Lopunny's damage, but rather a change in its moveset, because I do believe Shiny Pokemon should deal a bit more damage.

It was you, Caxoxd, who suggested reducing damage from Baby-doll eyes, Psychic Terrain, Psyblast and Rain dance. Again not me.

Also, besides those 2 moves (terrain and psyblast) which were nerfed, moves Baby-Doll eyes, Teeter Dance and High Jump kick from Sh Lopunny deal more damage. In contrast to the Shiny Pokemon I mentioned here, which have exactly the same damage with all moves they share with normal versions.

That's why I mentioned a boost of 5%, in case 10% could be too much.

I don't know what the other players think, but I feel like it is a bit unfair and unbalanced that other Shiny pokemon deal more damage with ALL moves. And I am not talking about 1 or 2 other shinies, it's a lot of other shiny with more damage in all the moves.

Anyway, thanks for your feedback ^.^

Hopefully other players will also express their opinion.

 

[Mathew95]

Agreed. Shinies as rares and hard to get they are should have at least a little boosted on damage from their normal form, not just a tank of hp and a slightly better moveset. But i Would like to know the damage gap of the shinies you dont mentioned because they do have more dmg than normal version, is it 5 or 10% difference?

 

[Khormes]

Shinies have changed skills and boosted HP, i think its enough, they are better than normal versions already, well usually.. and imo should stay as it is. Ofc there are a lot of weak shinies, but that's because of bad skills changes, not damage.

 

[NandoCruise]

Agreed. Shinies as rares and hard to get they are should have at least a little boosted on damage from their normal form, not just a tank of hp and a slightly better moveset. But i Would like to know the damage gap of the shinies you dont mentioned because they do have more dmg than normal version, is it 5 or 10% difference?

There are some Shiny Pokemon with 10% damage boost in some moves and 5-6%~ damage boost in other moves.

For example, Shiny Umbreon deals 6.6k with Curse and 6.4k with Night Daze; that's 10% and 6.6% boost respectively.

Another example is Shiny Chimecho, it deals 6.6k with move Extrasensory (with 3 hits) and 6.4k with Synchronoise; That's again a 10% and 6.6% boost respectively.
(I had to write down those examples to be able to explain my point)

This boost I am suggesting, doesn't necessarily have to be 10%. But I think Shiny pokemon should have more damage than normal ones.

 

[Tsotss]

Shiny pkms aren't like Cloned. Here is difference - Cloneds have more DMG of some spells and 1k more HP, Shinies have boosted HP and max 3 other spells than normal version. It's big adventage actually. Bigger DMG would be too much imo.

 

[Caxoxd1]

Your thread with that shiny had a purpose and the solution was given, so idk what would happen if NOW some shinies will deal more dmg like that shiny in all of its moves and I suppose this suggestion is for ALL the shinies obviously because if is only for them would be non objective.

Well now that I have told about changes in the past, I will give more reasons why shinies are fine now, first I dont agree that a normal poke deals more dmg like primarina forms, this should be change.
Well, for example Shiny sableye has a good combination in its moveset, it has poison jab to help against one of its two weaknesses, it has imprison to use very well its ability "prankster".
Another one, Shiny Ampharos, it has false swipe instead after you, it is a really good change to give an opportunity to ground, aslo it has secret power, it has cotton guard in passives instead eltetricity, i think is not necessary to explaoin that xD.
Other, Shiny Golurk, it has rock tomb to deal some dmg to fly, it has solar beam in passives to help against water.

In conclusion,the dmg of them depends of its original moveset in contrast to the normal ones, for example shiny umbreon has more dmg as you mentioned, anyway idk about what people think about its moveset but, imo the moveset of the normal one is a little better because it has moonlight.

So shinies should stay as always, they should have more hp and a diferent moveset and cloned poke should have more hp and 10% of dmg.

Just my opinion x2

 

[NandoCruise]

Shinies have changed skills and boosted HP, i think its enough, they are better than normal versions already, well usually.. and imo should stay as it is. Ofc there are a lot of weak shinies, but that's because of bad skills changes, not damage.

Well Khormes, if you think that better skills and boosted HP is enough, let me ask you something:

Would you mind getting your Sh Espeon's damage nerfed to Normal Espeon's damage??
I mean, Sh Espeon damage is as follows: Synchronoise deals 6.8k, Psychic Terrain deal 7.2k and Extrasensory deal 5.4k damage.
Normal Espeon damage is: 6k, 6k and 4.8k damage respectively.

I mean, Shiny Espeon has Imprison and Mist Ball. We all know that Imprison is THE BEST psychic-type stun and Mist Ball (better than Psy Pulse move) would be another AoE move to help deal more Area damage. So, according to your opinion, this 2 changes should be enough.

If your answer is: No, I wouldn't mind that Espeon and Shiny Espeon have the same damage with those 3 moves.
Then, I believe you are being honest.

 

[NandoCruise]

Your thread with that shiny had a purpose and the solution was given, so idk what would happen if NOW some shinies will deal more dmg like that shiny in all of its moves and I suppose this suggestion is for ALL the shinies obviously because if is only for them would be non objective.

Well now that I have told about changes in the past, I will give more reasons why shinies are fine now, first I dont agree that a normal poke deals more dmg like primarina forms, this should be change.
Well, for example Shiny sableye has a good combination in its moveset, it has poison jab to help against one of its two weaknesses, it has imprison to use very well its ability "prankster".
Another one, Shiny Ampharos, it has false swipe instead after you, it is a really good change to give an opportunity to ground, aslo it has secret power, it has cotton guard in passives instead eltetricity, i think is not necessary to explaoin that xD.
Other, Shiny Golurk, it has rock tomb to deal some dmg to fly, it has solar beam in passives to help against water.

In conclusion,the dmg of them depends of its original moveset in contrast to the normal ones.
So shinies should stay as always, they should have more hp and a diferent moveset and cloned poke should have more hp and 10% of dmg.

Just my opinion x2

My post about shiny lopunny had a purpose, yes. However, that purpose was not nerfing damage, that was your suggestion. Just making that clear one more time, because your comment seemed as if you wanted people to believe I was contradicting myself, when in fact I wasn't.

@Back to topic. I feel like you think this is a 100% PVP suggestion, when in fact it is not.

You mentioned Shiny Ampharos and False Swipe. Yes, it does help in PVP. However, False swipe is not really useful for PvE.

Do you really think it is fair that someone who uses a normal Ampharos in a Boss Raid deals the same damage as a Shiny Ampharos, when Shiny pokemon are WAAAY more rare?

That's the way I see it.

Another example: We all know how Golurk is one of the MOST popular pokemon for Raids. I think there are only 2 (or maybe 1?) Shiny Golurk in Diamond. let me ask you the same question: Do you really think it is fair that someone with a normal Golurk will deal the same damage to a Mewtwo as a Shiny Golurk ??

Not everything has to do with PVP. Yes, I love duelling, I love pvp. But this suggestion was more in a general way.

 

[Fallen Angel]

I think shinies should have boosted dmg, it doesn't need to be 10% in every move but it can even be 5%(that would make them a bit different than clones). I agree w Nando's point about Shinies and PvE. Owning a shiny should give you the upper hand on a raid(if you think I am writing this just to win raids worry not, I only have 2 shinies and I don't take them to raids), heck even in PvP. Shiny should be superior to normal in every way. I think many people forgot, but shinies were supposed to be special.

 

[Ashtib]

 

[Caxoxd1]

In conclusion,the dmg of them depends of its original moveset in contrast to the normal ones, for example shiny umbreon has more dmg as you mentioned, anyway idk about what people think about its moveset but, imo the moveset of the normal one is a little better because it has moonlight.

So shinies should stay as always, they should have more hp and a diferent moveset and cloned poke should have more hp and 10% of dmg.

Just my opinion x2

Bump this.

Well, I have explained but you can't understand me so I'll explain it more clearly.


You have to understand that shinies were created based on new moveset and more hp, from the beginning and it has always been like that, it was never thought that they would have more damage, so please dont say that all this is focus on pvp.Also, I understand that you want to change, it is your point of view, but I am only telling you that I dont agree with that change and you must respect and I think you have to be prepared to receive comments of desagree knowing that is a change which is out of the ordinary(yeah, people know that shinies are characterized only for its moveset and more hp, sorry but I have to repeat you many times).

Ps: I can also suggest that the cloneds should have a different moveset knowing that they have always been characterized by more damage and hp and say that it is unfair because they are cloneds and they dont have different moves blah blah, so sorry but that isn't an argument valid to talk about fair in case of shinies ,at least for me.

 

[Khormes]

Well Khormes, if you think that better skills and boosted HP is enough, let me ask you something:

Would you mind getting your Sh Espeon's damage nerfed to Normal Espeon's damage??
I mean, Sh Espeon damage is as follows: Synchronoise deals 6.8k, Psychic Terrain deal 7.2k and Extrasensory deal 5.4k damage.
Normal Espeon damage is: 6k, 6k and 4.8k damage respectively.

I mean, Shiny Espeon has Imprison and Mist Ball. We all know that Imprison is THE BEST psychic-type stun and Mist Ball (better than Psy Pulse move) would be another AoE move to help deal more Area damage. So, according to your opinion, this 2 changes should be enough.

If your answer is: No, I wouldn't mind that Espeon and Shiny Espeon have the same damage with those 3 moves.
Then, I believe you are being honest.

Well, im not writing long poems about things on forum like you, so there can be a lot of missunderstoods, i mean that not every pokemon should have boost dmg, sometimes skill changes is enough, sometimes not, but mostly skill changes and hp makes shiny much better pokemon and THATS ENOUGH, but sure call me dishonest for opinion, and yes sh espe would be better than normal version anyway with these changes, i didnt check damage between them, so dont make drama.