Froslass

[stin stauer]

hello, can this pokemon have your attention, its weak and forgotten:

p - double team
m1 - hex
m2- crunch
m3 - haze
m4 - freezy dry
m5 - spirit strike
m6 - disable
m7 - ominous wind
m8 - aurora veil
m9 - hail
m10 - destiny bond


p - double team
m1 - hex
m2- crunch
m3 - haze
m4 - freezy dry
m5 - spirit strike
m6 - disable
m7 - Dark Whispers
m8 - aurora veil
m9 - hail
m10 - Curse

thanks and feel free to suggest other moves

 

[Tsotss]

I agree it should be review, but seriously Dark Whispers and Curse? Now is the easiest way to make a suggestion to any pokemon - pulling move and move which kills everything on visible area.
Actually Destiny Bond is really nice move with amazing DMG and it hits almost everything on area (depends how pokemon are moving during using that move), but most likely it hits more of enemies.

I can agree changing Ominous Wind for Shadow Force/Dream Catcher (and removing it from TM set). IMO it would be enough for her and she will be a bit better.

 

[Mietek forgot password]

I agree it should be review, but seriously Dark Whispers and Curse? Now is the easiest way to make a suggestion to any pokemon - pulling move and move which kills everything on visible area.

Is it weird or smth for you? This is how the ''meta'' works in the game, good pokemon need pulling move + Rain Dance/Magma Storm/Curse type move, thats why TOP players exp with almost the same team.
So if froslass doesnt get at least pull move it will be useless as it is (like 70% of pokes in game)

 

[jeanm5]

I agree it should be review, but seriously Dark Whispers and Curse? Now is the easiest way to make a suggestion to any pokemon - pulling move and move which kills everything on visible area.
Actually Destiny Bond is really nice move with amazing DMG and it hits almost everything on area (depends how pokemon are moving during using that move), but most likely it hits more of enemies.

I can agree changing Ominous Wind for Shadow Force/Dream Catcher (and removing it from TM set). IMO it would be enough for her and she will be a bit better.

I disagree with your points becase:

1- hex and destiny bond have the same formula, and they are two easy moves to run away, during a duel if the enemy runs from these moves you are ruined.


2 - froslass is completely forgotten in the game, we don't see this pokémon on PvP, she is weak, check an example:

While treevnant and jellicent have ominous Wind as passive, froslass has it as a main move, do you think it's strong?

Changing only ominous wind will change this pokémon from "bad performance" to "regular performance". It reserves something a little better.

3 - I could think only of 3 pokémons owning "dark whispers". But even if we had 10 pokémons owning it, whats the problem? This move was designed to be used i supposed, just like hundreds of pokémons using rain moves

Your argument about pokémons shouldnt have this move is pointless the way I see.

 

[Tsotss]

Is it weird or smth for you? This is how the ''meta'' works in the game, good pokemon need pulling move + Rain Dance/Magma Storm/Curse type move, thats why TOP players exp with almost the same team.
So if froslass doesnt get at least pull move it will be useless as it is (like 70% of pokes in game)

Yeah, its weird, because people are complainying when in game we have almost the same every pokemon, there is no difference between each other (not necessarily here) and then guess what? People still suggesting almost same things. Before Staff started make a pokemon with pulling moves (only Probopass had if I am not wrong, then Porygon-Z and then others) no one thought about it and players could play with others moves and didn't suggest anything with it. It started being so common when one after one got pulling moves so then players are just focusing on it.

If for you 70% of poke are useless, then for what some of us (players) ask if in any event would be possible to obtain new pokemon (since there is always unknown moveset, unless Staff tests in on PVP). For what Sting and others rebalancers try to make new moves if things are so easy - pulling move, Magma Storm alike and thats all. Do every pokemon with the same and that's all. Also don't forget about Reflect/Protection, then it would perfect.

I disagree with your points becase:

1- hex and destiny bond have the same formula, and they are two easy moves to run away, during a duel if the enemy runs from these moves you are ruined.


2 - froslass is completely forgotten in the game, we don't see this pokémon on PvP, she is weak, check an example:

While treevnant and jellicent have ominous Wind as passive, froslass has it as a main move, do you think it's strong?

Changing only ominous wind will change this pokémon from "bad performance" to "regular performance". It reserves something a little better.

3 - I could think only of 3 pokémons owning "dark whispers". But even if we had 10 pokémons owning it, whats the problem? This move was designed to be used i supposed, just like hundreds of pokémons using rain moves

Your argument about pokémons shouldnt have this move is pointless the way I see.

1. Yeah, but always you can use both near target so its rather won't be avoided.
2. Therefore I suggested change Ominous Wind for other AoE (Shadow Force deals 6k DMG if I am not wrong) or Dream Catcher can hit even more (depends). Then maybe adding to passive Ominous would be eventually ok.
3. I am not talking just about Dark Whispers, I am talking generally about pulling moves which players suggested lately often. Right now some of pokes have it, so this is why I am a bit negative to making another one with it. Want pull pokemons - use other one, like Octillery (not in ghost type pokes case), Typhlosion, Swellow (with Scrappy) and others. And yes I agree it is supposed to be use, but does it mean that many of pokes should have it now? For more informations why I don't like these changes (with Dark Whispers especially) read answer to Mietek's post. Won't repeat myself.

 

[stin stauer]

Before Staff started make a pokemon with pulling moves (only Probopass had if I am not wrong, then Porygon-Z and then others) no one thought about it and players could play with others moves and didn't suggest anything with it. It started being so common when one after one got pulling moves so then players are just focusing on it.

hello man, thanks for your feedback, i read all the comments, and yours seems a little negative, I kinda understand what you say, but check my way of seeing it.

you said players were ok in the past without pulling and pushing moves, and now we want that, you are right, but it's because the game updated, new moves were brought and that's wonderful, it happens all the time when staff brings new moves and they start being distributed among the pokemons, just like rains or magma storm system.. this is normal.

I can't suggest moves that don't exist in game at the moment, i dont know how far they can create new moves, bring new moves, if they have anything different, then sure, go ahead, bring them on.

 

[phibrizzo]

ok, why u want make this one for gosts\psycho spawns... if this should be update u shouldnt improve pokes for current best spawns.. THIS IS ICE POKEMON.
pulling with ice pokemons who're focused on slows is strange.
I would like to see froslass ice again.
my option is :

p-shadows (like a mismagius but this move improves a single targets )
m1-hex
m2-ominous wind
m3-haze
m4-freez dry or frenzy frost (for range)
m5-shadow ball
m6-block
m7-ice shards
m8-hail
m9-shadow sneak
m10- destiny bond

 

[stin stauer]

ok, why u want make this one for gosts\psycho spawns... if this should be update u shouldnt improve pokes for current best spawns.. THIS IS ICE POKEMON.
pulling with ice pokemons who're focused on slows is strange.
I would like to see froslass ice again.
my option is :

p-shadows (like a mismagius but this move improves a single targets )
m1-hex
m2-ominous wind
m3-haze
m4-freez dry or frenzy frost (for range)
m5-shadow ball
m6-block
m7-ice shards
m8-hail
m9-shadow sneak
m10- destiny bond

your suggestion is so bad I don't even know how to start talking about it..

but to sum up, you gave all the possible bad ghost moves to froslass and added ice shards (which can be added as tm) and you also removed the best ice stun/damage move from it (freezy dry).

 

[Caxoxd1]

ok, why u want make this one for gosts\psycho spawns... if this should be update u shouldnt improve pokes for current best spawns.. THIS IS ICE POKEMON.
pulling with ice pokemons who're focused on slows is strange.
I would like to see froslass ice again.
my option is :

p-shadows (like a mismagius but this move improves a single targets )
m1-hex
m2-ominous wind
m3-haze
m4-freez dry or frenzy frost (for range)
m5-shadow ball
m6-block
m7-ice shards
m8-hail
m9-shadow sneak
m10- destiny bond

Freezy frost + destiny bond. No ty

Also, I agree with Lewuzeq, he said all I had to say.
Please dont make look normal to put dark whispers in most of the pokes only because nobody uses it. If one poke is forgotten, putting pull moves isnt the unique solution to improve it.
With Dream catcher/Shadow force believe me that it would be strong. Shadow force = 6k in dmg x2 Dream catcher can deal 2.8k in dmg x2, I dont remember well, but i think it can deal around 4 hits. Compared with Ominus wind , these moves are really better...
About changing destiny bond for curse can be a good idea because is sure that it will deal dmg compared with destiny bond that sometimes fails.

 

[MestredoBCC]

The first point is that everyone agrees and that the Froslass needs an upgrade. I think everyone has already given their opinion and now Sting will decide what to do.

I understand Mietek argument and agree with him, but the cool thing is that we have several pokemons and have several different move sets, trying to make each pokemon different and good (competitive), either for PVP or for PVE. Sting has been doing a wonderful job rebalancing, taking many pokemons out of oblivion and making them nice, cool to use.

I understand Lewuseq argument, I partly agree with him. The main fact is that we should not standardize a move set, as gruby cited as an example. I think the main goal of Sting and Staff in general is to make all pokemons strong, good and usable.

When I want to get a lot of experience, I really use the poke that Mietek mentioned, but most of the time I want to have a good experience with the poke that I like. Everyone likes certain pokemons for different reasons (anime, movie, manga, games), and I believe they just want to be able to use their poke by having a good experience, not necessarily having to be the strongest or most pokemon OP.

 

[stin stauer]

maybe this one then, with some small changes

p - double team
m1 - hex
m2- crunch
m3 - haze
m4 - freezy dry
m5 - spirit strike
m6 - disable
m7 - Shadow Force
m8 - aurora veil
m9 - hail
m10 - curse

 

[Ashtib]

maybe this one then, with some small changes

p - double team
m1 - hex
m2- crunch
m3 - haze
m4 - freezy dry
m5 - spirit strike
m6 - disable
m7 - Shadow Force
m8 - aurora veil
m9 - hail
m10 - curse

im not agree to put curse, with shadow force/dream catcher will be enough. Destiny bond its ok. Not every poke need to have MASSIVE AOE move.

 

[Zecao]

maybe this one then, with some small changes

p - double team
m1 - hex
m2- crunch
m3 - haze
m4 - freezy dry
m5 - spirit strike
m6 - disable
m7 - Shadow Force
m8 - aurora veil
m9 - hail
m10 - curse

im agree with you, but what about Will-o-Wisp? in m10?

 

[Mietek forgot password]

Add TM18 Rain Dance to TM's learnset, why? It needs something for its counters (except ghost) it will make Froslass more playable in pvp.
For pve you will have curse as a new move.
Maybe shadow sneak for hex

p - double team
m1 - hex
m2- crunch
m3 - haze
m4 - freezy dry
m5 - spirit strike
m6 - disable
m7 - ominous wind
m8 - aurora veil
m9 - hail
m10 - curse

 

[Juangutierrez]

I couldn't change destiny bond so my suggestion is:
1.- add Will-O-Wispm (according to bulbapedia). can help u against your weakness
2.- add 2 stun in his moves gives the opportunity to learn a damage tm and obviously reflect (I consider that there aren't people who have stun tms in frosslass)
3.-Add mist or shadow blast for a good balance of pve
4.-Add double team in moves very useful for pvp




p - hex
m1 - Astronish/Shadow sneak
m2- crunch
m3 - haze
m4 - freezy dry
m5 - spirit strike
m6 - Will-O-Wisp
m7 - Double team
m8 - Mist/Shadow blast
m9 - hail
m10 -Destiny bond

 

[stin stauer]

So many suggestions, thank you guys, good luck sting hehehe