Shiny Sylveon

[NandoCruise]

Hello PAd Community and Members of Staff,

Lately, I have been using Shiny Sylveon in duels and I must say I like it very much. It has Hold Back, which is a move 100% duel; that's why I decided to make it full duel.

However, I think there is a small problem with it: Even though it has Reflect, it doesn't have any counter moves. All of them are Fairy type.

I am not going to make a comparison like I always do. But, I would like to mention that most other pokemon with Baton Pass/Hold Back (Masquerain, Oricorios, Floatzel) have a passive move. (Gorebyss has no Passive, but it has Mud Sport, which is a strong counter against electric-types and can learn strong counters in TMs. Shiny Sylveon only counter in TM is Psychic and NO counter against Steel-types). This is why I would like to suggest adding a passive move to Shiny Sylveon.

Which one? Well a small counter:
According to Bulbapedia, Sylveon can learn Sand-attack, but I believe we don't have that move anymore in PAd (used to be a small no-damage stun). My point is, Shiny Sylveon could learn a ground-type move, which is why I suggest adding Mud as passive, as a counter for Poison- and Steel-types.

I don't think this would make Sylveon OP and it would definitely make it a bit better in duels.

What do you guys think?

Hopefully you see my point,
Nando~

 

[demzpacito]

i think ref + hold back are good enough as counters

 

[NandoCruise]

Thank you for Feedback Demz,

However, as you have mentioned before, you are not a dueler, you do not duel and this suggestion is 100% PvP.

So when you say that Reflect and Hold Back are good counters when in fact there are other pokemon with Reflect + Hold Back + Counter moves (yes, plural) ... it tells me you have no idea.

 

[Khormes]

Imo sylve should stary as it is

 

[demzpacito]

Thank you for Feedback Demz,

However, as you have mentioned before, you are not a dueler, you do not duel and this suggestion is 100% PvP.

So when you say that Reflect and Hold Back are good counters when in fact there are other pokemon with Reflect + Hold Back + Counter moves (yes, plural) ... it tells me you have no idea.

such as

 

[NandoCruise]

such as

Dear Demz,

Since you are asking, I'll make a list of the pokemon I know and of course I'll compare them to Shiny Sylveon.

1.- Masquerain has hold back + Bubblebeam + Aqua Bolt + 2 stuns in moveset, which gives you the opportunity to use Reflect + Rain Dance as TMs.

In total: 3 Counters + Reflect + Hold Back. And on top of that, it has a passive move. Masquerain is really good for Duel, yet not OP.

2.- Shiny Chimecho has Shadow Ball + Perish Song (in this case, Perish Song helps against Dark-types, since they are immune to Psychic attacks) + 1 counter TM (Shadow Storm/Dazzling Gleam or typical Rain Dance), because the other TM is Reflect. Shiny Chimecho also has a passive move

In total: 3 Counters + Reflect + Hold Back (or even if u don't want to consider perish song as a counter, then 2 Counters + Reflect)

3. Tsareena only has High Jump Kick as a passive (counter move). This is why I suggested something similar to Sylveon, because besides Aromatic Mist and Teeter Dance, Tsareena only has Grass-type moves. It can also learn Reflect and in this case you can use Feint/Play Nice or Natural Gift as a Duel TM.
Shiny Sylveon cannot learn any of these TMs because I assume Feint/Play Nice + Pixilate could be too op... imagine dealing 8k with Feint to a Dragon/Dark/Fighting type pokemon.

So, in Total: Counter as a passive move + Feint/Play Nice/Natural Gift as a duel TM + Reflect + Hold Back.

Now back to Shiny Sylveon: it only has Reflect + Hold Back + possibility to learn Psychic as a counter TM; which, btw, only deals 2.6k (19:50 Your Shiny Sylveon deals 2608 damage to an Arbok. / Fresh from test room) compared to 6k from Stored Power move from normal Sylveon.

Hopefully this could give you a clearer picture on why I think Shiny Sylveon need a counter and since it doesn't have any passive move (like all of the above mentioned pokemon), that's why I suggested that small counter as a passive move.

Regards,
Nando~

 

[demzpacito]

masquerain has to learn reflect via tm, and its pre evo was water type so makes sense to have 2 atks of this kind

about shiny chimecho, you cant call perish song a counter and say teteer dance is not a counter for shiny sylveon. if your shiny sylveon is 100% duel oritented i assume it has cute charm as ability, right?

how's high jump kick a counter for tsareena? she's weak to fire, bug, flying and poison, none of them being weak to fight


shiny sylveon has in moveset ref/hold back (two best counters in game), great area stun, 2 distance single targets, draining atk, fairy wind with cooldown of 45s.. only thing i could think it's needed is to add one or two counters to tm learnset, being one of them mud

it doesnt require pro duelist certificate to understand that you're trying to make your pokes more op when its clearly not needed, as usual, always with the same condescending attitude

 

[NandoCruise]

how's high jump kick a counter for tsareena? she's weak to fire, bug, flying and poison, none of them being weak to fight

You forgot something crucial: Grass-type pokemon are weak to Ice-type. Ice-type pokemon, like Beartic or Cryogonal are frequently used.

masquerain has to learn reflect via tm, and its pre evo was water type so makes sense to have 2 atks of this kind

We are not talking about whether it makes sense for a pokemon to have X or Y move, we are talking about how many counter moves a pokemon has.

about shiny chimecho, you cant call perish song a counter and say teteer dance is not a counter for shiny sylveon. if your shiny sylveon is 100% duel oritented i assume it has cute charm as ability, right?

I knew you would say that about Perish Song. That's why I also wrote number of counters without perish song.

And no, my Sylveon has pixilate. Wanna know why? There are A LOT of duelers with Ghost-type pokemon (Trevenant, Palosand, Jellicent, just to mention a few), which is why Pixilate is better. I do have Ability Capsule, so I change to cute charm when I don't duel Ghost-types.

it doesnt require pro duelist certificate to understand that you're trying to make your pokes more op when its clearly not needed, as usual, always with the same condescending attitude

"pro duelist certificate", "always with that condescending attitude", "trying to make my pokemon OP"

To this I can only quote the following:

After seeing the way you are reacting, I see there is absolute no point trying to talk to you.

I'll just wait for a response from Rebalance team.

p.s.: thank you, tho, for making me post a comparison. I like comparing.

 

[demzpacito]

You forgot something crucial: Grass-type pokemon are weak to Ice-type. Ice-type pokemon, like Beartic or Cryogonal are frequently used.

Indeed I forgot about ice type. Yet a counter against one of 5 types doesnt seem too much of an argument to prove a point.

We are not talking about whether it makes sense for a pokemon to have X or Y move, we are talking about how many counter moves a pokemon has.

Allow me to correct: YOU are not talking about whether it makes sense or not. I am. And that cant be ignored just cause it goes against your point. Talk about maturity when arguing.

I knew you would say that about Perish Song. That's why I also wrote number of counters without perish song.

And no, my Sylveon has pixilate. Wanna know why? There are A LOT of duelers with Ghost-type pokemon (Trevenant, Palosand, Jellicent, just to mention a few), which is why Pixilate is better. I do have Ability Capsule, so I change to cute charm when I don't duel Ghost-types.

are you familiar with the concept of trade-off? means pretty roughly you can't have it all, dear.

"pro duelist certificate", "always with that condescending attitude", "trying to make my pokemon OP"

To this I can only quote the following:

After seeing the way you are reacting, I see there is absolute no point trying to talk to you.

I'll just wait for a response from Rebalance team.

p.s.: thank you, tho, for making me post a comparison. I like comparing.

funny thing i remember being acused of selfishness when i argued players with higher lvl should have speed benefit on daily dungeon (and in the end steelixtite still went to my locker). so please for the love of corona dont throw this higher person bullshit when we know you're not. there was never a discussion since you were clearly never open to change your mind. i picture you as that meme with the guy sitting on a public space making some statement and asking to prove him wrong lal. but i agree with you, nothing good will come from this. lets wait for rebalance team to say their opinion

 

[Caxoxd1]

IMO adding tms psychics like psycho cut or stored power would be enough , in this way you can counter at least one of his weaknesses that is poison.
I have to emphasize that sylveon has less weaknesses (only two) than the others that are shiny chimecho, tsareena, masquerain, for example if someone use a poke steel/poison ,and you use shiny sylveon as first poke, you'll use hold back with it and you'll have a good advantage, in this case hold back is a good counter for his weaknesses.

Although now it doesnt have too much tms to counter his weaknesses, hold back benefits it even more than the others because its type.

 

[NandoCruise]

I honestly hadn’t seen it in that way. That is a good point.

I was more focus on the fact that literally all other pokemon have passive moves and thought: why not Sylveon too?

Well, maybe adding Mud might be indeed to much.

I actually just saw that normal Sylveon can learn Synchronoise and Shiny cannot. So maybe adding this TM plus adding the TMs you are suggesting will help.

Last try:
How about adding swift as passive? It’s a move Normal Sylveon has.

Thanks for your feedback, Caxoxd!